Jetskiis (& snowmobiles) suck

[RobBob]

They should be banned from NP's, IMHO. I'm not a tree-hugger, but the damn 2-cycle engines pollute air and water big-time. Noisy, annoying, detract from outdoor experience.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

"I'm not a tree-hugger, but I play one on the internet!"

[RobBob]

No, DFA, I was just listening to your beloved NPR this morning, and got the idea to poll this large group of park users.

[iain]

jetskis are the tools of satan but a chick magnet at the local dam mmrrrrmrmrrmrmrmrmrmrrrrrr

[iain]

plus you can do crazy stuff like this with 'em

 

[cj001f]

quote:

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Originally posted by iain:

jetskis are the tools of satan but a chick magnet at the local dam

mmrrrrmrmrrmrmrmrmrmrrrrrr

---

Silly me, I thought they worked better on their trailer, behind the jacked pickup with a badboyz sticker....

[Cpt.Caveman]

I am one with the snowmobile. Eliminate the approach

[iain]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RobBob:

No, DFA, I was just listening to your beloved NPR this morning, and got the idea to poll this large group of park users.

---

did you catch Bob Edwards rocking out to the Allman Bros? ahahahaha

[Dave_Schuldt]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

I am one with the snowmobile. Eliminate the approach

---

PUSSY!!!!

[fern]

I already have the jacked pickup. anyone know where I can get a deal on a sled?

[iain]

helicopters are also more exciting than sleds on snow

 

[allthumbs]

This guy would not agree.

 

[RobBob]

trask,

It was a sad day in Chi-town when his helo went down.

I was lucky enough to live in Austin when SRV would have a "make-rent Monday" show most every month at the Continental Club.

[allthumbs]

You lucky bastard.

[freeclimb9]

I wish I had a snowmachine. Instead, I'm putting together a winter bike: Fatty SnowCat rims, Schwalbe tires, all on a single speed frame. Ride on.

[Beck]

Nice sounding ride, freeclimb- don't forget the pvc pipe skiholders for the back rack!

Riding a bike on snowy roads is FUN- you can do graceful tailskidding countersteer turns in slowmo like speed and never let your trailing foot touch the ground- FREAKS OUT all the drivers when you come through an intersection

certainely livens up the morning commute!

 

We also used to get away with sneaking our rides up the ski lifts when our buddies were working and doing some downhillin'-

[iain]

some of my most spectacular bike wipeouts involved hardpack snow in college in Minnesota. Ah the back wheel fishtail when trying to speed up. Or the front wheel washout when braking. nothing like a faceplant on a 0 degree morning trip to class!

[Dru]

Who needs a sled when you can just tie a bundle of bottle rockets to a crazy carpet?

[Beck]

...oh, yeah, I forgot to mention the black ice "issues" like sudden, unexplained falls when the bike would be possessed by a flailing gremlin and just slide out from underneath you while pedaling-

[E-rock]

RobBob, since you are polling us for an opinion and this is something I feel very strongly about (and Caveman bullied me into responding with childish insults ), I'm going to speak my mind.

 

I'll go much farther than to say that snowmobiles (and jetskis) should be banned from NP's, I think they should be restricted to a very finite number of specified locations where they are separated from all other forms of winter (and summer) recreation.

 

I believe that people who partake in the use of snowmobiles and jetskis have no sense of aethetics and no reverence for the natural environment. Over the years I have had my altercations with 'bilers in the backcountry. My opinion is that they are generally a bunch of drunken, ape-draped, homophobic, brutes who feel empowered by their gas-burning toys and feel a need to overcompensate for their masculine insecurities.

 

I think the practice of high-marking is destructive to the human spirit and our respect for the mountains. The high marking of high, steep slopes is done with such ease and speed that several sleds can track out an enormous mountainside in a matter of minutes. Because this act is so easy to commit, it makes the mountains feel smaller than they really are. It inflates the human reference frame to the point where we can view ourselves to be as significant as the mountains themselves, which on geologic and spatial scales is not true.

 

I remember once talking a group of 'bilers out of beating me and my friend to a pulp, because my bigmouthed friend was yelling off the ridge at them. They believed that they had more of a right to be in the mountains than us because they "payed taxes on their sleds". These are the sorts of people who ride snowmobiles. They are the same people who bitch and complain that the governent taxes them against their will, then contend that their taxes have bought them priviledges (rights even!).

 

The snowmobiler is a particularly odd sort of redneck, he (and I say HE because you see very few female high-markers/recreational sledders) comes from the city with his money, his gas burning toys, and his irreverence. He pollutes the land with noise and fumes, pisses off the locals, frightens the wildlife, and then goes home to his life of societal insecurities.

 

The reason I was reluctant to post this is that many people on this site may use snowmobiles themselves for approaches. My opinion is biased against this for two reasons: I cut my backcountry teeth in a place where access was easy and snowmobiles were unrequired, and I choose not to access those places where a snowmobile would be necessary. Perhaps I would feel less strongly about snowmobiles as access vehicles if the four stroke engine was readily marketed. I think the two-stroke engine is a disgusting, wasteful excuse for engineering.

 

Furthermore, I'm reluctant to say these things because:

1. I criticize backcountry snowmobilers for claiming their 'right' to recreate supercedes mine, while...

2. At the same time I contend to have 'more' of a right to visit the mountains in unmotorized peace.

I am unable to reconcile this paradox in my own mind and fall back on the philosophical aspects of my opinion as expressed above.

 

[ 10-29-2002, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: E-rock ]

[iain]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beck:

...oh, yeah, I forgot to mention the black ice

"issues" like sudden, unexplained falls when the bike would be possessed by a flailing gremlin and just slide out from underneath you while pedaling-

---

that stuff would form at each point in the intersections where accelerating cars would polish it down to the point you could see your reflection. there was no escape you're going down! wearing clipless pedals you were doing the horizontal track stand 2-3 times a week.

[Greg_W]

quote:

---

Originally posted by E-rock:

RobBob, since you are polling us for an opinion and this is something I feel very strongly about (and Caveman bullied me into responding with childish insults

), I'm going to speak my mind.

 

I'll go much farther than to say that snowmobiles (and jetskis) should be banned from NP's, I think they should be restricted to a very finite number of specified locations where they are separated from all other forms of winter (and summer) recreation.

 

I believe that people who partake in the use of snowmobiles and jetskis have no sense of aethetics and no reverence for the natural environment. Over the years I have had my altercations with 'bilers in the backcountry. My opinion is that they are generally a bunch of drunken, ape-draped, homophobic, brutes who feel empowered by their gas-burning toys and feel a need to overcompensate for their masculine insecurities.

 

I think the practice of high-marking is destructive to the human spirit and our respect for the mountains. The high marking of high, steep slopes is done with such ease and speed that several sleds can track out an enormous mountainside in a matter of minutes. Because this act is so easy to commit, it makes the mountains feel smaller than they really are. It inflates the human reference frame to the point where we can view ourselves to be as significant as the mountains themselves, which on geologic and spatial scales is not true.

 

I remember once talking a group of 'bilers out of beating me and my friend to a pulp, because my bigmouthed friend was yelling off the ridge at them. They believed that they had more of a right to be in the mountains than us because they "payed taxes on their sleds". These are the sorts of people who ride snowmobiles. They are the same people who bitch and complain that the governent taxes them against their will, then contend that their taxes have bought them priviledges (rights even!).

 

The snowmobiler is a particularly odd sort of redneck, he (and I say HE because you see very few female high-markers/recreational sledders) comes from the city with his money, his gas burning toys, and his irreverence. He pollutes the land with noise and fumes, pisses off the locals, frightens the wildlife, and then goes home to his life of societal insecurities.

 

The reason I was reluctant to post this is that many people on this site may use snowmobiles themselves for approaches. My opinion is biased against this for two reasons: I cut my backcountry teeth in a place where access was easy and snowmobiles were unrequired, and I choose not to access those places where a snowmobile would be necessary. Perhaps I would feel less strongly about snowmobiles as access vehicles if the four stroke engine was readily marketed. I think the two-stroke engine is a disgusting, wasteful excuse for engineering.

 

Furthermore, I'm reluctant to say these things because:

1. I criticize backcountry snowmobilers for claiming their 'right' to recreate supercedes mine, while...

2. At the same time I contend to have 'more' of a right to visit the mountains in unmotorized peace.

I am unable to reconcile this paradox in my own mind and fall back on the philosophical aspects of my opinion as expressed above.

---

Whew!! Your pucker's a little tight there bro. Have a

[MtnGoat]

So basically, your religion of the mtns supercedes their religion of the mtns, right?

[Beck]

You'ver never lived in snow country, have you, E-rock?

DUDE, lighten up. Sure, snowmachiners are a particular breed, but they're expressing their interests in a perfectly valid manner and having as much fun as everybody else- sure, I don't want to see snowmachines on top of Baker I mean COME ON, NFS or cruising up SilverStar off highway 20, but a sled comes in handy for a lots more things than ego inflation by rednecks.

If I lived up in Nunakavit I'd want one.

I want my ski area ski patrol to have access to one.

A snowmachine is fun when you're on it, too.

Lots of time saved on the approach (personally, no thanks, 'im skiing in)

Of course, this is coming from someone who, when the skidoo rolls over, thinks, "cool, we're rolling the sled!"

[Greg_W]

quote:

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Originally posted by MtnGoat:

So basically, your religion of the mtns supercedes their religion of the mtns, right?

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Oh, you're in for it now, E-rock