RobBob Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Global warming is not a moral view but a reality. Please cite credible proof. RobBob believes that worldwide termite and sheep flatus contributes more CO2 than emissions from man. Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 "Global warming is not a moral view but a reality." Â Your contention it's a "reality" is at least as tiresome. Calling something reality doesn't make it so, regardless of how often one does it. Â "Your litany about your god-given right to screw others is tiresome." Â I look forward to a single example proving I've claimed a god given right to screw others. There is a search utility here on the board which should aid your quixotic quest. Give it a try. Quote
iain Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by RobBob: quote: Global warming is not a moral view but a reality. Please cite credible proof. RobBob believes that worldwide termite and sheep flatus contributes more CO2 than emissions from man. Please cite credible proof Quote
Greg_W Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by iain: it gets ridiculous when most of those people don't need a 4x4 monster to get to Fred Meyer, that's all. How do you know what they need them for? Do you ask them? Most of the big "SUV's" at my Fred Meyer also tow boats, trailers, have campers, snowmobiles, etc. Are we going to set up a bureaucracy that approves "need" of an SUV? That is where your going. Â Greg W Quote
j_b Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: You may exercise your personal freedom and liberty to the extent that it does not infringe the personal freedom and liberty of your neighbor. Very simple. How is that "screwing others"?if I have to explain to you how our spewing 25% of global CO2 emission is screwing others, I don't need to actually announce to the world 'your are a moron' because you do a pretty good job of it on your own. Quote
RobBob Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 Iain, here is an example of a nation struggling to cap its gaseous sheep emmissions... Â [ 10-23-2002, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: RobBob ] Quote
allthumbs Posted October 23, 2002 Author Posted October 23, 2002 A drive around Snohomish County is a drive in Truck/SUV-ville. But as Greg pointed out, most all own trailers, haul hay, firewood, lumber, bales of weed, and pursue myriad other heavy-duty 4X4 type activities with these rigs. The biggest waste is the SUV moms driving them around in the city for shits and giggles. Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 "but airplanes don't line up in a hover 5 abreast and 6x10^100 deep everyday at 7 and 5 for no good reason." Â No they don't. But people do fly for reasons I could just as legimately claim "for no good reason", mainly, the simple desire to go somewhere on what is a whim. The arbitrary desire to fly for a vacation is just as arbitrary as the desire to drive a gashog to work. Â The reason people drive what they drive to work, is because they want to. The reason people fly, is because they want to. Wether or not either reason is a "good" one is up to the person making the choice, not you. Â "and it gets ridiculous when most of those people don't need a 4x4 monster to get to Fred Meyer, that's all." Â what they "need" is up to them. Quote
iain Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Greg W: How do you know what they need them for? Do you ask them? Most of the big "SUV's" at my Fred Meyer also tow boats, trailers, have campers, snowmobiles, etc. Are we going to set up a bureaucracy that approves "need" of an SUV? That is where your going. Â Greg W No that's not where I'm going. Did I ever say it would be illegal to own an SUV? There is a need for social responsiblity, whether you consider that wuss talk or whatever, it's the truth. Take a bike to fred's or god forbid live near enough that you can walk. You got a big boat? Fine, haul away. I'll admit I have a Tacoma, not a prize-winning conservation mobile. I live 12 miles from work. I bike when possible. If I have to bring home something large, I drive. Multiply that by say 20% of the Seattle metro area, then by the workdays in a year, and you've got something. Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 j_b's debate moves into "moron" claims because someone doesn't agree with him. A good example of the actual degree to which the poster implements consideration of others in practice. Quote
iain Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by trask: A drive around Snohomish County is a drive in Truck/SUV-ville. But as Greg pointed out, most all own trailers, haul hay, firewood, lumber, bales of weed, and pursue myriad other heavy-duty 4X4 type activities with these rigs. The biggest waste is the SUV moms driving them around in the city for shits and giggles. Exactly. There is a need for those trucks and there always will be on the farm etc. Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 "There is a need for social responsiblity, whether you consider that wuss talk or whatever, it's the truth." Â IMO, it's not wuss talk, it's a valid consideration. My contention is that "social responsibility" only works when it's practitioners *choose* it, however. *someone* is buying SUV's, and from the claims of "progressives" that there is a "progressive" majority, something isn't making sense here because many of those progressives must be buying SUV's. Â Your ownership of a Tacoma proves my point. I will not berate you for ownership, because I assume you've examined your ownership in light of your actual commitment to social concerns, and judged that how you use it and other measures you take meet your own standards for responsible use. I respect your judgement of need. Â However when someone who doesn't know you sees you in it, isn't it likely they think about you what is spewed on this board? A gashog driving selfish owner who doesn't need what they drive? This is the issue I have with all the judgements passed around here like candy, they are almost entirely about people we do not know driving vehicles we don't know their reason for purchasing. Quote
Greg_W Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by iain: 5 abreast and 6x10^100 deep everyday at 7 and 5 for no good reason. 300,000,000,000 vehicles, eh? With 1.9-2.0 Million residents in the Portland Metropolitan area (Portland Chamber of Commerce), that would mean that every person has 150,000 cars. How does that work? Quote
RobBob Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 Iain, I have just completed a rapid but thorough study of the effect of termite flatus on global temperature. The detail of the reading is dry and in many languages, over the heads of most of the environmentalists here. But suffice it to say we got a big problem, boys and girls! We're going to need worldwide cooperation and an assload of DDT to fix this one fast. Quote
iain Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Greg W: How does that work? way to nail me on that one  I hesitate to argue this tedious stuff but there are other cities in the country. I just typed in a random large number (source: iain). Quote
jon Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I just got an Abrams. It makes a bushwack into a joke. Planning on taking it up Marble Creek next summer I got shotgun! Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Hey is it true greenpeace spikes trees and does other sorts of pranks similar to it If this is true then Greenpeace are a bunch of wankin pussies. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jon: quote:Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I just got an Abrams. It makes a bushwack into a joke. Planning on taking it up Marble Creek next summer I got shotgun! Second trip is into the pickets Quote
Greg_W Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by j_b: if I have to explain to you how our spewing 25% of global CO2 emission is screwing others, I don't need to actually announce to the world 'your are a moron' because you do a pretty good job of it on your own. Please enumerate these rights that are being violated. Meanwhile, list all the benefits that people are gaining from industrial progress and theorize if they would prefer to give those up. Or would you just be for legislating them away for "our own good"? Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 "Did you see my post to daniel about responsible use and management? The technology is there to extract the oil in a minimum-impact operation, much like the current Alaska pipeline and its related works." Â Yeah, you mentioned that you were for responsible use and management. But you kind of dodged the question (how leftist of you ). What happens when whatever company comes to build a subdivision or extract resources (trees, oil, etc.) in your fave recreation spot, and they're not too keen on spending the extra dough to go about it "responsibly," and your spot is threatened? Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 heck, he still hasn't found evidence that we support "screwing" other people by our admission, not his. I can claim all kinds of things about anyone, if I am willing to use my views of their activities as "proof" in absense of asking them what they really believe and support. Quote
b-rock Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by MtnGoat: However when someone who doesn't know you sees you in it, isn't it likely they think about you what is spewed on this board? A gashog driving selfish owner who doesn't need what they drive? This is the issue I have with all the judgements passed around here like candy, they are almost entirely about people we do not know driving vehicles we don't know their reason for purchasing. Ok, lets take an example. At my office (software)there are 18 people with vehicles. 10 of them are SUVs (three Excursions, three Blazers, two Suburbans, a Tahoe and an Explorer, I counted). One has a tow hitch that is used to pull a boat (occassionally). All commute 2-20 miles, alone, daily. You make a good point, I don't like assumptions, but sometimes the anecdotal evidence adds up. At least in metro areas. Those like Iain who may own a truck but limit use are far in the minority. Quote
DPS Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 Greg W, Â What good is a strong economy if it destroys the water you drink and the air you breathe. Think that's hyperbole? Take a look at Mexico City or China or any other developing country that has put 'progress' ahead of environmental protection. Quote
j_b Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Please enumerate these rights that are being violated.http://www.ipcc.ch/ Â http://www.ucsusa.org/Nucleus/01su.coolanswers.html Quote
allthumbs Posted October 23, 2002 Author Posted October 23, 2002 You know what bugs me? Candy ass wankers like MtnGoat that have to argue the shit out of every little detail. Give it a rest. When I drive down I5 in my F350 Crew Cab and peer down at the hippies in their Hondas and Yugos, I just sneer and flip boogers out the window. Quote
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