Ice trip- Cody or Canmore?

[jesselillis]

I have about 6 days first week of January.

I haven't been to Cody or Canmore. If you have been, and can spew some pros and cons for each, I'd like to hear 'em.

[davidk]

Can't speak to Canmore, but having been to Cody a few times, I'll offer my 2 cents. Get a copy of the "Winter Dance" (by Joe Josephson/ First Ascent Press) guidebook if you don't already have it. It's out of print, but Northern Lights Mountaineering or Barrel Mountaineering in Bozeman have the remaining stock (hopefully).

 

Cody has dozens of classic routes that form reliably and are well worth the trip. If you are proficient and fit, you can log serious mileage in Cody. Approaches range from less than 15 minutes to well over an hour, with the average for some of the common classics right around 45 minutes. Grades are full-value: more often humbling than ego-boosting. Cody is often called the "alpine simulator," and for good reason.

 

 

[EastCoastBastard]

I've never been to Cody, but I have lived in Canmore for the past two winters. Depending on how hard you climb/want to climb,and when you visit you may run the risk of visiting during a period of poor snow stability and not be able to climb cool stuff as just about all of it is in avalanche paths. There are a few crags that are safe, and if you have a 4wd, the Ghost is an option.

 

hope that helps

[genepires]

for banff, first week of january "can" be cold and, relative to cody, be low amount of daylight. Will usually involve driving in the dark to make the most of the daylight. The daylight is really not such an issue but the cold can be. Impossible to predict though.

 

I have been up there (banff) in late dec bunch of times and it was very good. The frigid days were few but they will shut you down. I don't think cody has this typically.

 

It probably comes down to where you are coming from? They are both great places and worth the drive. Each has their own pros and very little cons.

 

How about telling us your skill set and the type of ice climbing you are looking for?

Edited October 10, 2011 by genepires

[jesselillis]

Thanks for replies thus far.

 

Coming from Seattle.

 

Planning to drive, I believe the distances/times are comparable but if roads get shut down more between Seattle and one of two venues, that would be excellent to know.

 

Happy leading WI4, and very happy with multiple pitches of WI4. Have been on sharp end on WI5, though more stressed than psyched. It would be nice to change that, though maybe not in an environment that is 'humbling'.

 

Some backcountry ski experience and avy training.

[davidk]

There is little to no chance of getting shut down by snow or road conditions in Cody, but as was pointed out, it can get cold.

 

As a solid WI4 leader, you can have a blast in Cody. Classics like Cabin Fever, Wyoming Wave, High on Boulder, Main Vein, Too Cold To Fire, Bozo's Revenge, Moratorium, and Mean Green, are right in your wheelhouse. Leading Cody 4's is a good stepping stone to 5's at other venues.

 

As mentioned above, driving in the dark both ways in the valley is often part of the deal. Watch out for wildlife on the South Fork road!

[genepires]

pro for cody

 

Cody has the advantage of having a sunny side and a shady side of the valley. If it is really cold, obviously stay on the sunny side.

almost zero avi hazard in typical situations.

sweet long wi4 routes.

honest cowboy attitude.

probably less crowds at cody since there is no big cities nearby.

cheaper gas for cody

cheaper accommodations and food. (exchange rate favorable for US to)

Sierra trading post outlet?

 

 

pro for banff I have not spent much time in the canmore area. I usually head north to the icefields parkway.

 

friendly canadian attitude.

shorter drive from seattle to banff (something like 6 hours less one way)

can avoid avi hazard with route selection

well plowed highways usually

youth hostels in many locations. (where the climbing is better also)

ice climbing history!

cute canadian girls

can go lift skiing if need be

better rescue outfits?

so much variety. lots of longer wi4's

poutine.

bakery at lake louise.

could climb for half day in golden and make it back to bellingham by evening

Polar fu#$1ng circus!

Weeping wall!

Edited October 10, 2011 by genepires

[kurthicks]

Canadian Rockies have way way better mixed climbing, unless you like scary choss pulling.

[John Frieh]

Nothing really to add beyond since you're driving dont worry about deciding until right before you go. Let avy conditions and temps decide for you... if it's going to be super cold or jacked up avy in CAN head to Cody... if conditions look good head to Canada.

 

You cant beat CAN in prime conditions but unfortunately prime conditions dont exist all winter.

[Bob Loomis]

Dear All,

 

One point to consider is "hidden" costs associated with a trip to Canada. First my disclaimer--I live in Spokane so Canada is where I tend to go. But be aware of some "hidden" costs when going to a foreign country (yes, that includes Canada) such as: a) international credit card and ATM surcharges; b) the "potential" for debit card "holds" which exceed the actual cost of the transaction--only some merchants do this, but they will not necessarily tell you until you find your account overdrawn and get hit with another fee; and c) mobile device roaming charges which can in one weekend come to several hundred dollars (I learned this the hard way) depending on location. Personally I really enjoy going to Canada any chance I can get, but one has to be a bit smart about the nature and source of some of these extra expenses because they can rapidly add up. So for example to limit ATM and credit card exchange fees I tend to go to an ATM once, withdraw the Canadian cash I think I will need plus some extra as buffer, then just use cash for the trip--one ATM and card transaction fee versus many. If I get to a bank during daylight hours M-F, I go into the bank and use the teller line--then there is zero ATM fee for the transaction plus the chance to talk to a nice Canadian. I virtually never use my debit card internationally to both limit transaction costs and increase my contractual consumer protection rights associated with a bad purchase and/or refund situation (debit is a cash purchase which is harder to reverse from a long distance like your home versus a credit based tranaction--your credit card). Also, before crossing the border, I now turn off the roaming feature on my mobile device. If there is an emergency I can still make a call if needed, but this alone saves hundreds of dollars for a weekend. I am sure other more experienced and/or smarter people have other ideas, those are some I have learned.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington

[climbercam]

Are you guys unable to get CDN cash from your bank? Alberta has less taxes and cheaper gas (just a FYI)

 

I personally prefer AB for ice since you can camp anywhere you want....

[RafalA]

Not sure where in AB you're climbing ice, but the only place you can camp anywhere you want is The Ghost. The rest of it is protected park land.

[Dane]

CCs and Debit cards can get some bad stuff happening to them as Bob mentioned. Worse offenders seem to be gas stations in Golden and Radium. It really can turn a nice trip into a nightmare though. Make sure your and YOUR PARTNER's passport are squared away before leaving home...it has happened more than once and it isn't any easier to get in to Canada.

 

Gas prices in BC are silly stupid. Idaho and Alberta much better. From Seattle drive to CdA make a fill up, add as required at Bonners and Drive to Lake Lousie or Banff. Save more than a few bucks on gas if you do it that way. Plan on a similar fill up schedule on the return.

 

I've found that generally getting across the Cascades the worst driving or any road shut downs. Although the Ice Fields highway gets closed a lot through out the winter for a few days at a time which will limit your climbing options and almost guaranteed if that happens the avi conditons will be bad elsewhere in the Park. You will have to get creative or go to a movie in Banff. John Frieh's advice is good for that one.

 

Twight always told me that Cody was the best ice in North America. Like Bob I suspect, Banff and the Icefields seem like home purely for sentimental reasons and most importantly it is close at hand. (just not close to Seattle in comparison)

 

'Cuz it can be terrible avi and weather conditions there (Canada) most of the winter and days are short. But the hospitality, accomadations and food are good. Weather is warmer these days and things like Cascade which is a must do isn't always up. I wouldn't suggest the Ghost on your first trip and wih out a local to take you in.

 

For several reasons I now head for Chamonix in the winter if I have the time. Bad weather there means you ski instead of climb. Good weather is much more likely. But the climbing generally more serious and colder as well mid winter. From Seattle you can get to Geneva in virtually the same time it takes me to drive to Banff. Obviously the price of admission is higher and the elevation you will be climbing at is as well.

 

Six days from Seattle?

 

Banff, if you want to see the scenery and do some of North America's real classics.

 

Cody if you want to actually just get some great milage on good ice and not worry so much about dying or stress on you gas bill.

 

Both are at best a REALLY full day of driving from Seattle and you'll drive even more while in Canada. Typically 1000 mile round trips for me if you hit the Weeping wall or Ice Fields and Baff/Canmore.

 

Cody

14 hours 9 mins

894.3 mi - I-90 E

 

Lake Louise through Kamloops (several avi closed passes in the way and expensive gas the entire trip to Alberta)

11 hours 29 mins

563.9 mi - Trans-Canada Hwy/BC-1 E

 

Seattle-Spokane-Lake Louise (break up the drive and climb Gibralter Wall and or Copper Creek as intros)

12hrs and 15 min

640 miles

[jmace]

As far as the CC and debit card thing go, our debit cards and your debit cards are not the same.

 

I can NOT use my debit card anywhere but an ATM while travelling in the states and I get the same dings as you do here for using them. ~5$

 

the "potential" for debit card "holds" which exceed the actual cost of the transaction--only some merchants do this, but they will not necessarily tell you until you find your account overdrawn and get hit with another fee;

 

Your guys debit is somehow connected to your CC or something? Just use credit card for gas purchases, dont try and use debit. Our debit cards have nothing to do with Visa which is why I cant pay with debit anywhere in the states.

 

 

I do not get charged any other fees for using my Visa in the states, I have a basic Visa

 

My data plan for my phone covers North America, Im sure you can add the same feature on yours then just use Skype to call home. Texting is free on IOs5

 

Anyways just use the debit at the ATM and credit cards for other purchases

[Dane]

Typical debit or credit card holds for gas (no matter what you actually buy) at Radium or Golden can be as high as $500 US. And it takes days to clear and adjust the amount. 2 tanks of gas there can be a $1000 hit in a few days time instead of the actual cost of the purchases, say $100. I have had three CCs get flagged at Radium by my CC company and until I called in couldn't be used again including for the transaction I was attempting.

 

Problem happens when you use the card and it gets declined and flagged (rightfully so by your CC company) in Radium so you use cash or another card that does work...then show up in Banff, Lake Louise or Canmore and your original card is now "dead" until you get hold of you CC company in the states.....via roaming charges and long distance. BTDT and it is really a PIA.

 

Credit card and debit cards (which are Visa and Master cards anyway just with a limit) don't have the same problems in Cranbooke, Banff or Lake Louse.

[RafalA]

I've never had these issues, regardless of where I travel.

 

Whenever leaving the country, or even travelling further afield than usual, just call your CC company and let them know when and where you plan to travel. One call and I've never had issues whether I'm in France or the US.

 

FWIW, the ice is looking really good around here right now!

[Dane]

I've never had these issues, regardless of where I travel.

 

Whenever leaving the country, or even travelling further afield than usual, just call your CC company and let them know when and where you plan to travel.

 

I do the same as well. The Radium gas issue...has never been resolved. The transactions there (gas station on the left as you enter the canyon and head for Banff) some how cause a fraud alert which shuts off the cards on my as well as partners US cards of any sort.

 

Last year I was in Canada numberious times, as well as the UK, France, Italy and Switerland. I used my debit card the majority of the time (with no addional fees) and CCs once in a while. No issues what so ever. Bob is right though...debit cards don't offer the protection CC cards do for refunds.

 

I don't do cash out of the country because debit cards and CCs offer the most up to date exchange rates.

 

Worth noting as well, there is no cell service north of Lake Louise until just short of Jasper. That tends to limits the roaming charges for me

 

[DanielHarro]

dont forget your passport... not like this ever happend to me or antyhing...

[jmace]

I was always under the impression your guys debit cards were somehow credit cards attached to your bank account

 

I know canadians cant use debit anywhere but ATM's in the states, europe and so forth, although some of our credit union debit cards work at some US gas stations.

 

Super weird about radium, but the way it works at gas stations if you use debit for a fill up then it pre-charges your account then credits it back, but its not 500$ maybe 75$

[Dane]

Super weird about radium, but the way it works at gas stations if you use debit for a fill up then it pre-charges your account then credits it back, but its not 500$ maybe 75$

 

Hey I didn't pull the $500 out of my ass That is what my bank told me the gas station in Radium hit my card for while I was still in the parking lot wondering WTF. Even the gas station attendant didn't realise how much it was, because I asked last time it happened and was more than a bit pissed.

 

$50, $75 or even $100 isn't unusual here in the states for a gas transaction. $500.....not so much, like NEVER. And it isn't just debit cards but CCs as well.

 

US resturants do something similar adding 20% for a tip and then sorting it all out in two or three days. Gas at Radium I have seen take 5 business days.

[pup_on_the_mountain]

before crossing the border, I now turn off the roaming feature on my mobile device. If there is an emergency I can still make a call if needed, but this alone saves hundreds of dollars for a weekend.

We have Verizon, and switched over to a plan that covered both US and Canada for 1 week when we were traveling in CAN. It cost us $20 extra (for two of us on a Family Plan) for a week. I'm guessing other carriers might have similar switch-over options.

 

But as Dane pointed out, we were not able to use it much north of Lake Louise (until we got to Jasper).

[Bob Loomis]

Dear All,

 

I have had some experiences similar to Dane's. When I read all the posts I think the basic concept is, do not assume that what happens to you in your own country with your own bank/credit union, will be what happens to you when traveling abroad. One thing that has been mentioned but is worth a repeat is that with a CC purchase your consumer protection rights are stronger (at least under US law), i.e., warranty issues, return/refund issues, defects, parts missing, etc. Often when I am on the road I will end up buying some piece of gear, clothing, etc. Sometimes I get home and there is an issue. Resolving the issue long distance with the merchant can be problematic, but if the purchase was made with a CC, then the card issuer can take up the issue with the merchant (assuming you have your documentation in order), and resolve the issue quickly--and until resolved you do not have to pay the charge on your statement.

The idea is to have a fun trip, and things like sitting in Radium like Dane mentioned (has happened to me) tends to take the fun out of the trip. So--travel smart:-) .

 

Cheers,

 

Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington