Tendonitis Symptoms?

[dberdinka]

So I realize this is the "fitness" forum but it seems to function more as an "injury" forum.

 

I've had a long-term nagging injury that has flared up this year in a bad way. Standard treatment protocls for tendonitis have had little to no effect. I'm of the suspision that this injury more related to nerves than tendons but I really don't know. Got an appointment with the family practice doc to start the long and hopefully useful process of getting an accurate diagnosis.

 

In the meantime I'm just curious how elbow tendonitis has manifested itself in other climbers. So if you've had it and feel like twelling me how it felt it would be much appreciated.

 

1) Where did it hurt? Elbow or forearms or fingers? All-over or in a specific point?

 

2) Which side? lateral/medial (outside/inside)?

 

3) How would you describe the pain? Sore? tingling? sharp pain? something else?

 

4) Any other symptoms of note?

 

Much appreciated!

[chirp]

Going through medial tendonitis (golfers elbow) right now, started after a particularly crimp specific bouldering session about a year ago and has been persistent ever since.

Pain at the medial attachment point, just below the inside of the elbow for the flexors.

Just plain painful at times and exacerbated by work and dumb stuff like setting my car emergency break.

No radiating pain just achy and sometimes sharp AT the flexor attachment.

I haven't gone to the doctor but am stretching, icing, and just got an "armaid" device to see if that helps and...after one week it seems to be abating.

To answer your questions:

 

1) Elbow

 

2) Medial (Flexor attachment)

 

3) Dull ache to sharp depending on what I am doing

 

4) Increase in trigger points all over the flexors of the forearm.

 

Hope this helps...all I can say is this is a huge PITA

 

 

[Lodestone]

1. Elbow. Medial and lateral.

 

2. See above.

 

3. It felt like the area was bruised.

 

Doing the PT described in this articled has helped me go from having a bad case of LE to having it be almost gone.

http://rockandice.com/articles/how-to-climb/article/951-elbows-and-wrists-tendonitis-and-tendonosis

 

 

 

Chad

[Sol]

Darin, what kind of opposing muscle group training are you doing?

[Rad]

Sorry to hear that Darin. There is a lot of good info on epicondylitis (inflammation of the elbow). Mostly it is medial.

 

I believe pain is usually restricted to the elbow in a very specific spot just below the arrow in this image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golfer's_elbow

 

Because this is an inflammatory condition, NSAIDs (and RICE) can be very helpful in quieting down the localized overactive inflammatory response. Rest alone won't always do it. I've found that it is important to ramp up activity gradually over time and learn what activities cause more inflammation. Personally, I have to be careful with weighted pullups. I can do them but have to ramp up to higher weights, warm up, and not do it for long periods. Climbing is usually not a problem unless I overdo it. Sufficient rest between hard training sessions (48-72 hours depending on intensity) is important for me. Low intensity endurance training sessions can actually be helpful if pain is not too high.

 

I don't know what the elbow elastic does, though I've seen some people wearing those. Be wary of relying on using this or NSAIDS to reduce your pain so you can climb. If I know I have a big day that might stress the system, I might take ibuprofen in the early morning beforehand.

 

Perhaps Sol can tell you about opposing muscle training, though I'm not sure that will necessarily help for this condition.

 

Layton will probably chime in soon...

 

[dberdinka]

Thanks gentlemen.

 

Unfortunately my symptoms are quite a bit different. No or little point tenderness in the elbow, rather a radiatiing numbness or tingling across the back of the forearm and into the pinky combined with a sense of muscle tightness.

 

My theory is some sort of nerve entrapment maybe aggrevated by minor tendonitis and resultant swelling plus banging away on a keyboard all day.

 

It at least explains why RICE has no effect. Layton will probably tell me I need by back adjusted...but shit I'm game for just about anything!

[Rad]

Radiating numbness/tingling definitely suggests a nerve issue. It may be more likely to be your spine/cervical disc than your elbow that's causing the impingement. Definitely see a doc or a well-trained PT.

 

Funny enough, nerves are like muscles: use em or lose em and train em to make em work better. Prolonged nerve disuse leads to atrophy and can result in permanent conditions (e.g. drop foot) so definitely get checked.

[Tyson.g]

I agree Darin with the nerve entrapment hypothesis.

I was about to suggest it when I opened the thread and read your last comment in whole.

I had a neck injury years ago that presented in a very similar way (numbness and tingling in the pinky).

Best of luck Darin and heal quick!

 

[genepires]

hey D, if you can find him, ask Bob Kandiko about this. It sounds a lot like what he went through years ago. He had numbness in his hands/arms that was unfortunately was found to be a nerve issue in his neck also. It was real ugly trying to get it fixed, involved surgery and was about 18 years ago. Hopefully the doctors have fine tuned the whole thing by now.

I think he had some events that could have caused the damage. Do you remember doing something bad to your neck and high upper back area?

 

Whatever happens, I am sure you will be doing something big by next spring break.

[Sol]

A few questions Darin:

 

When do you feel the pain/numbness? Does it start in the morning and get better as you move around and warm up or does it feel good in the morning and ache by the end of the day?

 

Any changes in your work environment? New keyboard, new desk, new chair, new workload?

 

Any changes in your training regimen/climbing routine? Stretching routine? Sleep pattern? Diet?

 

Again, what do you do for strengthening the opposing muscle groups? Tony Yaniro called the tricep the stabilizing muscle of the forearm...

 

When was the last time you had the muscles of your forearm massaged and seperated? (as climbers we constantly rip these muscles over and over again causing them to adhere to each other, stick together, and not move properly. i had great results with very painful deep massage of my forearm muscles. a good massage practicioner (you know a few) should be able to teach you how to do this yourself (I do this about 4x/year)).

 

I was once convinced I had nerve entrapment/impingement because of numbness in my pinky and ring finger. Tyree taught me a simple stretch which worked wonders and that I still use to this day: With your elbow bent, fingers pointing up, and your palm facing you, place two fingers (of your other hand) on the medial aspect of your wrist, while placing moderate pressure on the internal components of your wrist with these two fingers, stretch your hand laterally away from the direction of your two fingers. Repeat. Hope that makes sense.

[Rad]

Sol,

I'd like to learn that stretch too. Can you post a pic?

Thx

Rad

[boadman]

julian saunders - dodgy elbows

 

 

There's pretty good info there.

 

[dberdinka]

Hey Sol, appreciate your interest

 

When do you feel the pain/numbness? Does it start in the morning and get better as you move around and warm up or does it feel good in the morning and ache by the end of the day?

 

24/7 like a cold burning

 

Any changes in your work environment? New keyboard, new desk, new chair, new workload?

 

Definitely more working this year, which means more time spent with bent elbows typing.

 

Any changes in your training regimen/climbing routine? Stretching routine? Sleep pattern? Diet?

 

Less training and climbing in general though I pretty much stopped gym climbing a couple years ago as it always no matter how easy I took it aggrevated this condition. Training is typically more generalized conditioning. This year injury has been caused by relatively moderate crimpy face climbing at Erie, which suggests tendonitis I think but the symptoms seem off.

 

Again, what do you do for strengthening the opposing muscle groups?

 

Nothing specific....

 

When was the last time you had the muscles of your forearm massaged and seperated?

 

Never....

 

Tyree taught me a simple stretch which worked wonders and that I still use to this day:

 

???

 

[layton]

Darin,

 

it could be a nerve entrapment from a problem in the wrist, elbow, shoulder, neck, or a combination of all of the above. sounds like the ulnar n. but radial may be involved.

 

it also could be a tendinitis with referred pain

[Giles]

I've been dealing lately with a burning numbness in my hand (usually the back of the hand, but not always?) and forearm that seems like a ache radiating from the inside side (medial?) of my elbow. on days it flairs up it wakes me up in the morning.

 

It always hurts in the morning as I'm waking up, and rarely do i get numbness at other times, although sometimes when typing or writing. The elbow is a very very dull slight ache the rest of the day. maybe I'm sleeping on it weird? I'm 80% sure that i developed this problem from excessive use of a ratchet wrench at work (the problem is in my right arm which i use). I've stopped using a wrench and this has helped but it seems to be a nagging issue... I don't tend to notice any pain or numbness while climbing, especially if i warm up well. I'm wary of developing a chronic issue, and the numbness aspect worries me. Nerves?

 

Sorry to hear about your pain.

 

Here's to healing.

 

Chris