NW Alpine Russian titanium ice pro

[B Deleted_Beck]

i did some searches, and couldn't believe i didn't find a thread on these... now i'm sort of leery about giving away a good secret...

 

wondering about opinions on NW Alpines mystery screws...? http://nwalpine.com/hardware

 

i'm sure i'm going to get the typical mixed bag of opinions ranging from "you saw the disclaimer- you gonna trust your life to that?" to "hell yea, i use these all the time..." with the inevitable disclaimer, from both camps: "but you just have to assess for yourself and decide what risks you're willing to take."

 

so, for clarification- does anyone actually USE these, or at least know of them being used?

Edited September 2, 2011 by bkb0000

[genepires]

I have used some screws that look just like those almost 20 years ago. They were complete crap and worthless in waterice. It cost only $10 each but they were worth that for alpine ice were they went in by hand if it was warm.

 

Assuming that these are the same, then they are a complete waste of money. They also dull very quick.

[iceaxe23]

I've used those Irbis titanium ice screws as Mountain gear used to sell them like 10 years ago. They crack waterice and are as Genepires said worthless. They normally sell for $10-12 and would maybe work as a pound in on alpine ice.

 

I carried them on a Rainier attempt back in 1999 and luckily did not use them.

[wetslide]

I've used them a few times, and while they do not inspire confidence like normal screws or go in very easily, they do work.

[G-spotter]

Say you have an ice-filled crack that's too narrow to build an Abalakov, you could place one of these and leave it as a bail screw. That's about the only place they are any good.

[BillA]

Howdy, I pretty much agree with what everyone else has said, they're useful for carrying when chances are you won't need an ice screw, but want to carry one just in case. Or for bailing. They're definitely crap for water ice climbing, but they're super light and increasingly hard to find.

 

We've only got a few of the pins and screws left and once they're gone, they're gone for good. Check out this http://nwalpine.com/cascadeclimbers link for half off pitons and screws for CC.com members. Just include your username in the comments section when you're checking out.

 

If you do order, they won't ship for about a week, as we're leaving to go on vacation today.

 

Happy climbing!

 

-Bill

[B Deleted_Beck]

well sounds like they're pretty much perfect for me, then. backup for alpine ice. is the problem mostly that they just dull up and/or don't cut for shit?

[Joe_Poulton]

I use those on every ice climb I do. I have about 14 of'em (bought at REI in the 90's for $12 each) and 4 BD screws complete my Ice screws. The great thing is they don't rust like BD screws. I've put them in by hand in every ice that I climb. There was one post on a forum about 4 years ago of a team in Alaska and an avalanche almost took them out but the Russian Titanium screw kept them attached to the mountain. On Vertical Water Ice you just place them in accordance with an old Rock & Ice article the holding strength is in the shaft so they require a 45 degree upward placement as opposed to BD screws.

 

I've used them in the past to bail off Ice climbs instead of V-threads and went back in the Spring to fish them out of the pools at the base and no rust after a few months of total submersion.

[Zoran]

I have two.

I like them only because they bring some memories from old times I started climbing. I first tried ice in Tamar valley, Slovenia but haven't used them there. Slovenian instructors used them and some Austrian hardware.

 

I always carry one on alpine climbs to leave it behind. It didn't happen so far ... My set is Petzl (and few Grivels). Having Titanium screw to leave, makes less impact on the budget.

 

I got them long time ago in Yugoslavia, when friend came from Pik Korzenjevska. I also have this pitons from the pictures. One with hole we called Bongs.

 

Russians were trading them for silk leggings for their girlfriends. Friend told me Russians had a big box full of titanium hardware. We heard, they climbed unbelievable routes with this screws but no one was reporting that outside of Russia. Also, no one was reporting accidents and deaths caused using this screws. It was very closed climbing community and they shared experiences only between themselves. Now is very different.

 

I also believe this screws are very unreliable but if we can see some reports from NWA based on data from Russia it will help.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Zoran

[Fromage]

These screws are irresistible for those climbers who suffer from CHOP: Cheapskate Objectivity Paralysis.

 

I had some of these titanium screws many years ago and they were so inferior to everything else on the market. I finally donated them to a gear museum because I was worried I might actually make the bad decision of relying on one. I placed them but never found out if they really worked.

 

O Former Soviet Bloc Titanium Ice Screws, how do you suck? Let me count the ways:

1. short tube length

2. small number of teeth (3) which easily bend and don't cut in water ice worth a damn

3. terrifyingly skinny thread profile

4. requiring much energy to place, when it's possible

5. smaller tube diameter

 

You need to bail. This is a time when you need to have reliable gear. If you want to trust your life to a $12 piece of crap that is your decision to make, but before you make that choice it's good to ask if it's worth it.

 

Buy one for $12. Compare it to any BD, Grivel, Petzl, Simond, or other reputable steel crew on the market. You'll gain a newfound appreciation for those $40 screws. It's a cheap lesson.

[j_b]

They became popular for a few years because they were significantly lighter than anything else on the market at the time. Newer screws (post-80's) are now much lighter, which has made titanium screws mostly unnecessary considering their many disadvantages.

[G-spotter]

If you're going to carry a piece you know you aren't going to use, it may as well be junk so that you don't inadvertently decide to use it.

[mattp]

I carried some of those for a few years and never actually used them before I bought something better. I guess I got lucky.

[Fromage]

If you're going to carry a piece you know you aren't going to use, it may as well be junk so that you don't inadvertently decide to use it.

 

I don't follow your logic here. Methinks if you are going to carry a piece of gear it should NOT be junk in case you need to use it. If you know you aren't going to use it, you shouldn't even bring it. This is why I leave my vintage tuba collection at home when I go climbing.

 

On the other hand, if you buy a bunch of $12 POS titanium ice screws you'll be able to afford a decent life insurance policy with all the money you save.

[G-spotter]

If you're going to carry a piece you know you aren't going to use, it may as well be junk so that you don't inadvertently decide to use it.

 

I don't follow your logic here. Methinks if you are going to carry a piece of gear it should NOT be junk in case you need to use it. If you know you aren't going to use it, you shouldn't even bring it. This is why I leave my vintage tuba collection at home when I go climbing.

 

On the other hand, if you buy a bunch of $12 POS titanium ice screws you'll be able to afford a decent life insurance policy with all the money you save.

 

You're missing out, bro. Some of those tubas make great deadmen if you fill them with snow.

[G-spotter]

More seriously, there are plenty of places where Russian Ti screws are 'good enough", such as when staking out your tent on bare ice

 

[chirp]

More seriously, there are plenty of places where Russian Ti screws are 'good enough", such as when staking out your tent on bare ice

 

 

Looks like a nice Wal-Mart tent! Grats G