Lucky Larry Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Yep, lets talk about a no fly zone while Gaddafreak sends his jets out to keep the nasty lairs where they belong, face down dead. :: Sure is great how fast the US/UN takes action against a known thug. By the time the UN makes up it's mind Gaddafreak will have already declared, "mission accomplished." Beware dear reader of what I ask for. This despot may be replaced by someone worse than Gaddafreak. Like someone not aligned with the USA. US ambassador Susan Rice said a no-fly zone would only bring limited help. Holy shit, must already be too late, why bother? Edited March 17, 2011 by Lucky Larry Quote
ivan Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 no fly mighta been useful if it was coordinated w/ rebels from the get-go, but the usa engineering revolutions in other folks countries isn't exactly what you want is it larry? reminds me of iraq in '91 - us encourages folks to revolt, then stands by w/ a wierd look on its face as the would-be rebels get slaughtered. Quote
murraysovereign Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 I understand the reluctance to try imposing a no-fly zone over all of Libya. It requires an all-out aerial assault on radar and gun positions that are frequently situated in civilian areas, probably resulting in large numbers of civilian dead - which is exactly what you're trying to prevent. So I get that. But... what about a no-fly zone over rebel-held territory? That would be easier to impose because the people on the ground aren't going to be trying to shoot your planes down, so you shouldn't require nearly the same level of bombardment to secure the patrol area. That would at the very least prevent Quaddafi from using air power against the rebels. He could still control his own airspace, but he couldn't control the rebel's airspace, and that might buy them some time to get organized and equipped so as to have a fighting chance against the regime's ground forces. Quote
Lucky Larry Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 I don't know but whats so bad about taking some of his shit out of the air? Quote
Off_White Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 We're not done with the last two wars yet, and you wanna start in with another one? You and what army? Quote
AlpineK Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Libya is fucked up, North Korea is fucked up. We've already invaded two fucked up countries and haven't gotten very far. More war is not the answer, besides we can't afford it. But mom I wanna new war... Quote
Jim Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Libya is fucked up, North Korea is fucked up. We've already invaded two fucked up countries and haven't gotten very far. More war is not the answer, besides we can't afford it. Exactly Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 The Arab League is calling for military intervention in Libya. They seem to have no problem crossing borders to involve themselves in Bahrain, well...perhaps they can take it upon themselves to take care of Mr. Qaddafi, too. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Also, its extremely unclear to everyone exactly who we'd be helping in Libya.... Quote
prole Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 In the meantime, in places where second and third class citizens are also standing up for their rights and demanding accountability from their leaders...America gives the green light for one of the most authoritarian regimes in the world to invade another country and put down the uprising. And the Repubs said Obama lacked the experience to play the game... Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 In the meantime, in places where second and third class citizens are also standing up for their rights and demanding accountability from their leaders...America gives the green light for one of the most authoritarian regimes in the world to invade another country and put down the uprising. And the Repubs said Obama lacked the experience to play the game... Saudi involvement in Bahrain was a surprise to us as well as everyone else. But, hey, by all means, keep spreadin' your bullshit to 'balance' theirs. Quote
prole Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 That's the dumbest thing I've read all morning. Guess we'll have to wait for the next Wikileaks. Quote
ivan Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 what american attempt to overthrow a dictator didn't end in folly? i guess the hitler overthrow went well enough, but that was a different kettle of fish, and certainly we were but one player out of many in the operation. seems like if we do a no-fly now, it'd be similiar to iraq from 1991-2003 - a big old inconclusive open-ended debacle that displeases everyone involved Quote
prole Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Try this on for size... The Arab counter-revolution is winning By Pepe Escobar The current Arab counter-revolution is brought to you by the House of Saud - and enabled by the Pentagon. The Gulf has been plunged into pre-emptive war. After the initial euphoria of the great 2011 Arab revolt, the message of the Gulf kingdoms and sheikhdoms to Washington has been unambiguous - and effective; if we "fall", your strategic game is in pieces. Once more, "stability" trumps democracy. It's hardly surprising to see Saudi Arabia - the home of pious Wahhabism, fanatic al-Qaeda, and hypocrite Saudi princes gambling, drinking and partying in London or the French Riviera - smashing a popular desire for democracy and human dignity. The attached novelty is the invasion of neighboring Bahrain. For the House of Saud a pro-democracy movement in Bahrain today is a worse existential threat than the fictional possibility of Saddam Hussein invading the kingdom way back in 1990. Saudi media may slam Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his lethal strategy against his own people. But Libya and Saudi Arabia are equals. Gaddafi has laid out the counter-revolution playbook; bomb the fight out of the protesters. His winning strategy is the same as Bahrain's, with crucial Saudi help. The Gulf plunged into pre-emptive war As far as the inextricable Saudi/Washington nexus goes, democracy may be acceptable for Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. But it's a very bad idea for Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and other friendly Gulf dictatorships. United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had a close meeting in Paris with special envoy of the Libyan transitional council Mahmoud Jabril. They discussed "how to step up the level of US outreach''. This after the Barack Obama administration had coined the neologism "regime alteration" for its new Middle East strategy. So "outreach" means talking to pro-democracy "rebels", while "regime alteration" means endorsing brutal crackdowns against pro-democracy protesters. The proof that the policy is official is that Jeffrey Feltman, the assistant US secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs, has been at the US Embassy in Manama since Monday - where he oversaw, live, the Saudi invasion and the subsequent bloody repression of the Pearl/Lulu roundabout (50 tanks, heavy armored vehicles, several helicopters). This is the fourth time Feltman visited Bahrain in one month. The predictable Saudi-orchestrated counter-revolution has transformed demands for justice, dignity and equality into the newest, deadliest, incarnation of a Sunni-Shi'ite sectarian war, so that imperiled Sunni regimes may once again invoke the specter of a Shi'ite crescent. From Muqtada al-Sadr in Iraq to Hezbollah's secretary general Hassan Nasrallah in Lebanon, not to mention the leadership in Tehran, naturally they had to raise their voices to defend unarmed, tear-gassed, shot at Shi'ite civilians. But this is not about Sunni/Shi'ite; this is about an across-the-spectrum desire for more justice, equality and dignity. The House of Saud and the al-Khalifa dynasty have just fabricated a war out of peaceful protests in Bahrain. The head of the Shi'ite opposition bloc al-Wefaq, Abdel Jalil Khalil, has identified it as "a war of annihilation. This does not happen even in wars and this is not acceptable ... I saw them fire live rounds in front of my own eyes". It's never enough to repeat that Bahrain's youth movement - at the forefront of the protests - is basically composed of students, liberal professionals and masses of unemployed. Young Bahrainis - taking their cue from the Egyptians - are saying, once again, Kefaya! (That's enough.) History is coming to get you Judging by the way it is covering Bahrain - especially when compared to its wall-to-wall Libya coverage - al-Jazeera regrettably is now aligning itself with the Arab counter-revolution. That is, Qatar is also an accomplice. al-Jazeera insists what's going on in Bahrain is just a "confrontation". And it never refers to invading Saudi troops; they are "Peninsula Shield" forces, a stridently obvious Pentagon-style slogan along the lines of Operation Enduring Freedom. Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabr Al-Thani, Qatar's premier, has not excluded the intervention of Qatari "peacekeepers". Nabil al-Hamr, a key adviser to Bahrain's King Hamad al-Khalifa, showed up on al-Arabiyyah TV - essentially a House of Saud mouthpiece - to thank Qatar and other Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) members for their military and "other" support in repressing Bahrainis. And as an extra reward, Saudi Arabia will allow Qatar to appoint Abdul Rahman al-Atiyyah - the outgoing GCC secretary general - to be the next secretary general of the Arab League. This is the same Arab League which voted for a no-fly zone over Libya, but is mute on repression in Bahrain and pre-emptive repression in Saudi Arabia. Bahrainis now have not only a dictator to overthrow but a foreign army to throw out. Sultan Qabus in Oman at least had the decency of talking to the local protesters and conceding more legislative powers. Bahrain's al-Khalifas - especially the hardliners, led by sinister Prime Minister Sheikh Khalifa bin Salman al-Khalifa, the king's uncle, in power for not less than 39 years - offer nothing but bullets. The true public image of the al-Khalifas now is their policemen shooting unarmed protesters, as seen here. The whole al-Khalifa demonization campaign is sectarian-based. On Bahrain TV - an al-Khalifa mouthpiece - protesters are painted as savages, gangsters and terrorists. And the government - as Hosni Mubarak did in Egypt - has unleashed its goons en masse. True, Pakistani residents have been attacked at random with swords and iron rods in very dodgy circumstances. Hundreds of Sunni Pakistanis have been recruited for Bahrain's riot police (they get fast citizenship as well as social benefits). Yet it's crucial that the victims of these attacks have identified their assailants as similar to the baltajiyya thugs who wreaked havoc at the Bahrain University earlier this week. Only two kinds of people in Bahrain have access to weapons; the security services - infested with foreigners, mercenaries included, and members of tribal families allied with the ruling Sunni al-Khalifas. The pre-emptive war in Manama is the battle that the House of Saud, the emir of Qatar, the sultan of Oman and the wealthy Emirates fear having to fight at home. They have already proved they are on the wrong side of history. Their crackdown - blessed by Washington's "regime alteration" policy - may work, for now. But sooner or later history will vacuum-clean them to oblivion. Pepe Escobar is the author of Globalistan: How the Globalized World is Dissolving into Liquid War (Nimble Books, 2007) and Red Zone Blues: a snapshot of Baghdad during the surge. His new book, just out, is Obama does Globalistan (Nimble Books, 2009). Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) A bloggerz op ed that calls the Saudis a bunch of assholes. Ground breaking! Edited March 17, 2011 by tvashtarkatena Quote
ivan Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 we shouldnt' be global cops, it's that simple - at any rate, i don't see how arguments over how we stir the shitpot can change the fact that the pot still smells like shit Quote
prole Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 A bloggerz op ed that calls the Saudis a bunch of assholes. Ground breaking! For someone who regularly extols the virtues of the internet, you don't seem to be using it much. Has your Democrat Party membership crippled your critical faculties? Quote
rob Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Let's just nuke the place. The CSM says fear of radiation is exagerated anyway. I used a similar tactic on a teeming swarm of tiny ants crawling up my foundation wall -- one quick blast of RAID straight into the center, and then I just wiped them away with a rag. Problem solved. Sure, there's a little bit of poison left on the wall, but that will just keep them from coming back. I don't see why this tactic wouldn't work in the middle east. Quote
prole Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 A bloggerz op ed that calls the Saudis a bunch of assholes. Ground breaking! Disappointing that you weren't able to make it this far... So "outreach" means talking to pro-democracy "rebels", while "regime alteration" means endorsing brutal crackdowns against pro-democracy protesters. The proof that the policy is official is that Jeffrey Feltman, the assistant US secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs, has been at the US Embassy in Manama since Monday - where he oversaw, live, the Saudi invasion and the subsequent bloody repression of the Pearl/Lulu roundabout (50 tanks, heavy armored vehicles, several helicopters). This is the fourth time Feltman visited Bahrain in one month. I wouldn't go so far as to call that "proof", but it's pretty strong circumstantial evidence. You could file a FOIA request but by the time it's granted I'm betting things will have become quite clear. Quote
Lucky Larry Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 I don't want another war; just thought it might be nice to take out some of his jets--why does it have to be so complicated--hee haw Quote
rob Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 I don't want another war; just thought it might be nice to take out some of his jets--why does it have to be so complicated--hee haw "It wasn't an act of war, we just bombed a few of his military bases. What's the big deal, guy?" Quote
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