prole Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Gotta compete!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrox Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 YOU don't get to pick and chose what taxes you'd like ot pay. Nobody else does, except for the obscenely rich that you shill for (like the Koch brothers). ANyway, you benefit indirectly from an educated population but we have already gone over this and it's not like I expect you to get it. Â True but I get to pick who and what I vote for and I rarely vote yes for bond measures. Since I get a firsthand view of whats getting taught to our/my kids I think we're all in trouble. Its good to know that you think our public education is something worth bragging about, let alone paying more for. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I think employees should be able to eat while working. Efficiency is the only way we're going to beat the chinese!!! Â Lunch is a first amendment right! Â more like a 9th amendment right that required 1st amendment rights (organization, speech, and protest) be employed in order to realize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 My kids aren't being taught shit in school. Fuckers can't even mix a good manhattan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrox Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Manhattans are a right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrox Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I think employees should be able to eat while working. Efficiency is the only way we're going to beat the chinese!!!  Lunch is a first amendment right!  more like a 9th amendment right that required 1st amendment rights (organization, speech, and protest) be employed in order to realize  Which amendment covers a "sick-out"?   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 On the one hand, our lunch breaks and benefits are just historically contingent abstractions. On the other, you're having a fit over affronts to your delicate sensibilities such as "sick-outs". Time to examine your moral framework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sick out? Is that like when you see Pamela Anderson naked? Â OOOOH GROSS, SICK ME OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Maybe your kids just aren't engaging. I know a bunch of teens pretty well and they seem fully engaged with school, music, sports, the ushe. They're schools are light years better equipped than any of mine were. Â The Idiocracy that is the Right doesn't seem to realize that by opposing public school's its cutting off one of the two foundations of a fully employed workforce: baby sitting services (the other being surplus food). Everyone needs to pay for these babysitting stations; they absorb those who would otherwise cling to the ankles of the productive worker. The Right's wealth depends, of course, on this amortized service. Â Face it, most of your kids out there will end up steaming lattes, doing time, or hunting rats across some charred, post-apocalytic wasteland. It's almost cruel to dangling a world of beauty and richness that won't be there for them. Far better to fatten them up in government holding pens and let them attend to their pleasures so when the Time of Sorry comes they'll last a few weeks longer before being eaten. Â Â Edited February 23, 2011 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Which amendment covers a "sick-out"? Â what word in the "right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances" do you need assistance with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 bullshit. Jobs are outsourced not because of automation but because of dirt cheap labor and no environmental regulation in developing nations. You have already played that trick on us several times. Â You clearly know fuckall about manufacturing. Â Â as someone who works in manufacturing... that's kinda true. I can think of several places that couldn't compete with chinese making $1/week even after lots of automation upgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 despite the propaganda and the rank stupidity of those who believe in it, 200,000 outsourced jobs per year have very little to do with automation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 True but I get to pick who and what I vote for and I rarely vote yes for bond measures. Since I get a firsthand view of whats getting taught to our/my kids I think we're all in trouble. Its good to know that you think our public education is something worth bragging about, let alone paying more for. Â right, war is peace and paying teachers less will improve education. Did you fall on your head as a child? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Since I get a firsthand view of whats getting taught to our/my kids I think we're all in trouble. Â Like us, they're probably learning that you're wrong about nearly everything. Yes, you're in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Face it, most of your kids out there will end up steaming lattes, doing time, or hunting rats across some charred, post-apocalytic wasteland. It's almost cruel to dangling a world of beauty and richness that won't be there for them. Far better to fatten them up in government holding pens and let them attend to their pleasures so when the Time of Sorry comes they'll last a few weeks longer before being eaten. Â It would be a shame to have to ship Hunter-Seeker and Killbot manufacturing jobs overseas because of the competitive shackles of collective bargaining agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crux Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Gov. Hosni Walker show signs of desperation: Wisconsin Capitol blocks pro-union website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Since I get a firsthand view of whats getting taught to our/my kids I think we're all in trouble. Â Like us, they're probably learning that you're wrong about nearly everything. Yes, you're in trouble. Â Right Wing fucknut is too busy helping his kids with their calculus homework. Â He should pull his kids out of public school if he thinks they suck so bad. I'm sure his home school curricula of Glenn Beck, the Golf Channel, and helping mommy do the dishes will make their resumes look very competitive. God help them if they decide to become teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 The fact that there are literally hundreds or thousands of applicants for every fire-fighting job suggests that we'd have no problem staffing our fire stations with qualified people who are every bit as capable of performing all of the necessary job functions at a significantly lower cost to the public. Â Logical fallacy. Just because there are a lot of applicants doesn't meant there are a lot of good applicants, or that there is "no problem" finding good applicants. Â Your claim that having hundreds or thousands of applicants for every position doesn't pass the logic test either. You can't prove that 5, 10, 50, or 75% of the applicants aren't qualified - which only proves that attempting to treat an empirical question like the percentage of qualified applicants for FD jobs like a logic problem from the GRE is silly. Â One can simply ask the question - which is more common: Hearing about fire departments that are finding it impossible to fill vacancies at the salary and benefit levels on offer, or fire departments that are thronged with hundreds of applicants for every position, many of whom have been serving as volunteers for many years, have multiple certs, etc. Â Hell - take a look at the public database for the Seattle FD. Of 1107 positions listed, 551 had gross pay in excess of $100K. That doesn't include the value of current benefits, much less the true cost of future benefits like a permanent, inflation adjusted pension, retiree health benefits, etc - all for a job that has no formal educational requirements beyond a high school education, isn't even in the top-10 most dangerous jobs in the country, often allows for full retirement benefits at 20 years, and offers enough downtime for a significant amount of work on the side. Â I appreciate the service that firefighters provide, but I'm not convinced that you need to offer pay packages well into the six figures to attract qualified applicants for a job that requires a high-school diploma and some on the job training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordansahls Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Which amendment covers a "sick-out"? Â what word in the "right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances" do you need assistance with? Â I'm sure some people here would like to see teachers protest only on weekends and holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Uh, the simple expedient that over time the particular value of X changes leaving some employees at Y, others at X and much discord because Z can be quite large. Â When you make it clear that it's either take across the board cuts, or layoffs, or put the new guys on a lower pay and benefit scale somehow the old guard finds a way to cope with making signficantly more money than the new hires. Â Somehow all of the folks that started working for the State of WA managed to sublimate their resentment at not being able to participate in PERS1, GM didn't have any problem attracting hires after reducing the pay and benefits for new workers, and Utah isn't having any problem filling vacancies now that new state workers get a 401K instead of a pension. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Uh, the simple expedient that over time the particular value of X changes leaving some employees at Y, others at X and much discord because Z can be quite large.  When you make it clear that it's either take across the board cuts, or layoffs, or put the new guys on a lower pay and benefit scale somehow the old guard finds a way to cope with making signficantly more money than the new hires.  yeah, that's exactly what happens when you threaten across the board pay cuts.  next Jay_B will argue there's no instituitional knowledge or on the job training for police, firefighters and teachers  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Ohio. Â Both sides realize that collective bargaining rights are the means by which public sector employees extract excess pay and benefits from the public treasury, and by which democrats fund their re-elections campaigns via taxes that get recycled back to them through mandatory automatic deductions from public sector union payrolls. Â Take away public sector bargaining rights and the central mechanism that both sets of beneficiaries rely upon goes away. Great for taxpayers and everyone with a stake in cost-effective delivery of state services, bad for public sector employees and the party that depends on them. Whole tax-funded patronage network goes away. Â Everyone knows the deal on both sides of the aisle, so it's no surprise that they're pulling out all of the stops to keep the gravy train rolling. Â If nothing else, at least it's now clear exactly who stands for what, and why. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Huh, Jay_B isn't concerned about selling assets on the cheap to friends. Â We do, indeed, know who stands for what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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