duckfeet Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 I'm looking for a new hardshell. I've had a paclite jacket and can't stand goretex. It feels cold, super clammy, and I always wind up damp from the inside. So I'm looking at Event and the Patagonia M10. I'd prefer event, but so far can't find a good fit with the few companies using event. Anyone have any experience with the M10? Can anyone compare the fit of RAB's Latok Alpine and Momentum? I ordered a Med and Large in the Latok Alpine and neither fits well. The med is too short in the arms and way to tight across the chest/shoulders. The large fits great in the upper regions, but is very baggy in the body. Does the Momentum fit any differently? Quote
layton Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 goretex proshell is the shit, way better than it's predecessor. Quote
bearbreeder Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) hopefully the below helps you ... the DMPC test below is "considered" to be one of the more reflective breathability test ... the short story ... for breathability theres event ... and then there's gore and a few others ... then there's everything else .... if you sweat like a pig in paclite, id get something in pitzips no matter what the material honestly though ... if you can wait i would ... with MH going event (dryq), polartec neoshell being used by westcomb/rab, and gore active shell coming out ... there's likely to be "better" fabric at the end of the year ... or a clearance on older fabrics or you could buy something cheap and on sale ... and plan to tear it to shreds hope that helps http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/rainwear+how+it+works.html Edited January 16, 2011 by bearbreeder Quote
bucketz Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 any layered fabric is going to perform almost identical. that rei chart is based in a controled enviroment with brand new material. neat.... breathability comes from actual venting in the garmet design....not microporous holes in the fabric...maybe if you could pressurize your jacket to create the enviroment that exists in the test you might see it work.....just bring multiple shirts and a synthetic puffy. Quote
duckfeet Posted January 16, 2011 Author Posted January 16, 2011 I've seen the test stuff, but don't put a lot of value in them. Like what was said above, they are based off a controlled environment. I have heard enough good things from enough people to believe that event does a better job. Bringing more shirts isn't a real world solution. I'm not looking to start a debate over layers, hardshell vs. softshell etc...as fun as it can be, I'm really looking for some fit advice on the RAB jackets and anyone that may be able to compare the M10s three layer fabric to gore/event. Thanks to secret ninja magic, all are on sale Quote
BigSky Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 The Momemtum is a boxier cut than the Latok Alpine. Slightly shorter arms and a bit more volume in general. The Latok Alpine is about as skinny/long arm a cut as I have been able to find in a large hardshell of any make. Quote
bearbreeder Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 well i actually think the fabric makes quite a bit of difference ... along with ventilation of course if you want something that has awesome ventilation ... OR jackets with torsion flo are the best ive seen ... double zips, hem to arm zips, turns into a poncho basically for event ... try westcomb ... made in vancouver canada ... the fit is the same as dead bird i find Quote
RokIzGud Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 I have Rabs Latok Alpine with eVent. It is the shit! Quote
Dane Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Buy any style you want but make the material Polartech Neoshell...no one else even playing the same game. Seriouly! Quote
Dane Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Buy any style you want but make the material Polartech Neoshell...no one else even playing the same game. Seriously! Quote
billcoe Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Buy any style you want but make the material Polartech Neoshell...no one else even playing the same game. Seriously! Anything worth saying once is worth saying twice:-) Per this article it looks like MEC will have something out soon. http://www.outdoorsica.com/blogs/my_first_gear_blog/2010/nov/18/more_on_polartecs_new_neoshell_and_why_its_good_news_for_consumers/ Dane, can you spend a moment telling us of your experience? How you got a sample or what you did with it that so convinced you? Thanks for the heads up on it, I'd never heard of it. _____________________________________________________________ Real interesting story about this company (Malden Mills) for anyone unfamiliar. https://www.jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/45991 Sadly, if you are looking to invest, they are not a public company. They filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy relief in 2007 -- its second time in about five years -- and subsequently liquidated through Chapter 7. Malden Mills' assets were acquired by newly created company Polartec, LLC, owned by private equity Chrysalis Capital Partners. Expect an IPO once the market solidify's and they get this new material out in the marketplace. Quote
layton Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 A lot of cool fabrics at the show. Columbia's omniheat is actually pretty cool - it would be interested to see some of it applied to the climbing market...polartech will be coming out with something similar soon. As for polartech, they kinda glossed over their whole "powershield pro" fabric - i mean only two or three companies used this so called award winning fabric. why? Now neoshell. The stats on it look pretty cool. Goretex has their new active shell which I found out little about. But gore usually makes a pretty good product so maybe it will compete with the neoshell. Apparantly mountain gear also has a new highly breathable waterproof fabric too. finally one other very cool thing I saw, although I haven't a clue if it's awesome or retarded is the Argon Gas insulated jackets. of course their hype makes them sound amazing. ohhh how much fun it is to wade through hype and bullshit at the OR show! Quote
bearbreeder Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) ive sold off or given away most of my dead bird hardshell and softshell jackets in anticipation of the new fabrics actually .... kept one to wear around town my gut feeling is that with the higher air permeability it may replace both hardshells and softshells .... and maybe even windshirts ... i hope OR picks it up ... combined with their torsion flo ventilation ... as to powershield pro ... last thing the world needed was a less breathable version of powershield ... tells ya something about the incestuous relations between gear sties (gear junkie im looking at you), outdoor mags (outside mag) and manuf (polartec, north face) ... when something like that happens ... TNF kishwar, gear of the year winner .... hmmmmmmm Edited January 23, 2011 by bearbreeder Quote
bucketz Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 all crap..grampa climbed in waxed canvas. Quote
BigSky Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 My ice partner this weekend was in Neoshell. His inclination: more breathable than eVent, but doesn't touch the better stretch woven's or micropiled windshirts (i.e. vapour-rise, driclime) for breathability. Is it cool stuff? Yes. But...it's never going to wick like a shelled micropile or napped stretch woven (i.e. dryskin extreme). The weave density will limit dry times compared to traditional softshells as well--fast drying time is incredibly important to me and would pretty much negate this as a softshell replacement in my gear line-up. Also, you really have to keep up on the DWR with anything stretchy or it will wet out fast--not really a big deal but needs to be kept in mind. I'll probably pick up a piece or two in Neoshell and would be likely to use it as a hardshell in some situations but I don't think it will be a paradigm shift for me. I'll likely try it within the next month and can give a more educated opinion at that point. Quote
Dane Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Anything out there now in Neoshell are preproduction prototypes. Neoshell can be laminated to any backing. So it depends on what your friend's prototype was backed with as to just how well it works. I've seen half a dozen versions here at the OR show and have a buddy who has been climbing in several totally different versions. He is a jaded industry rep among other things and not overly easy to impress. His comment when I asked.."it's the missing link". And he has nothing to gain from the product professionally. One of the manufactures sewing the stuff, a guy I trust, walked me through his own climbing system and Neoshell was a major player in that. He sent me to the Polartech booth to look further. Later that day I find out a buddy has been testing prototypes for a year now. Only a few companies have bought into Neoshell as of yet but I suspect others will quickly follow. I've not used Neoshell myself but am anxious to do so. If the sales hype matches the actual results it will be impressive. Quote
BigSky Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 If the sales hype matches the actual results it will be impressive. Indeed. Whatever the case it appears that there will be another player or two in the highly breathable wp/b game, which is great. I bet Neoshell et al. will be the final blow to the hybrid shell. Quote
BigSky Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Word on the street is that Neoshell is oleophobic (a la eVent)--negating the Gore style PU backing--but not a PTFE...did they (Polartec) give any detailed technical info to that affect or otherwise Dane? Thanks Quote
Dane Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I have a ton of info but I'm in the airport on the way home. More later. http://polartec.com/shelter/polartec-neoshell/ Quote
BigSky Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Apparently it is a microporous PU...interesting. Even with a hydrophobic treatment, eventually as CFM goes up you will give up water resistance. I'm interested in Polartec's answer to this issue. Quote
Dane Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I had a chance to chat about this again this moning with Polartec reps. Seems one thing everyone (all material manufactures) is missing is the ultimate DWR. Also rechecked, anything out there at the moment in Neoshell is a preproduction sample. Interesting feedback but nothing I would want to judge the finished product by. Quote
G-spotter Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Schoeller's made a stretch wp/b fabric with a membrane (WB-400) for a couple years now. The Mammut Castor was the first I remember to be marketed as "waterproof softshell". Now it sounds like Malden Mills is playing catch up. Quote
Figger_Eight Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 I've spent a lot of time with Event/GTex and had a chance to play with the Active Shell and Neoshell stuff. One thing I think may play a role in the addition of Neoshell pieces to existing manufacturers' lineups is how lenient Gore will be in allowing the two fabrics to coexist within the same brand. My experience with all of the fabrics, though, still make the user rely on proper layering and simply knowing when they should take the jacket off before fully sweating it out (if reasonable). Certainly each has their own pros and cons, but for most consumers the durability of the piece (especially the glue holding the PTFE to the facing fabric)should be one of the most important factor. IMHO Gore still has the edge here. As far as the original post, give the ProShell a try. That third layer does a quite a bit in preventing you from getting that clammy feel Paclite will sometimes give you. I have both, so I know what you're talking about. Quote
bucketz Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 now i know you are all queers. after looking at all ther websites, they all say the same thing, show the same diagrams and promise the same shit. boring. http://www.eventfabrics.com/we_sweat.php http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/content/fabric-technologies http://www.patagonia.com/us/patagonia.go?assetid=2790 why dont you go buy one on sale wear it till it is ruined and then BUY a new one and repeat. again BORING!!!! HOW MANY BURNED OUT WANNBE old dudes have some crappy or blog and how they have the inside scoop and their "bros" done this know that? BORING. BORING. all the crap is the same, buy that fits on SALE!!!!or flaunt some pro/bro deal insider b.s./ BORING!!! Quote
genepires Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 now i know you are all queers. after looking at all ther websites, they all say the same thing, show the same diagrams and promise the same shit. boring. http://www.eventfabrics.com/we_sweat.php http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/content/fabric-technologies http://www.patagonia.com/us/patagonia.go?assetid=2790 why dont you go buy one on sale wear it till it is ruined and then BUY a new one and repeat. again BORING!!!! HOW MANY BURNED OUT WANNBE old dudes have some crappy or blog and how they have the inside scoop and their "bros" done this know that? BORING. BORING. all the crap is the same, buy that fits on SALE!!!!or flaunt some pro/bro deal insider b.s./ BORING!!! please don't hold anything back. Let us know how you really feel. Quote
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