rob Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 still waiting to hear what vaccines you gave your kids. Since you claim to not be anti-vaccine, there must be at least a couple..... Quote
Kimmo Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 still waiting, but in the meantime, here's something that might interest you and the others who are researching this subject: Â Our new section is perhaps highlighted by the testimony via an exclusive CBS interview of Dr. Bernadine Healy, the former Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) regarding this vaccine controversy. In this interview, Dr. Healy says, "I think the government, or certain health officials in the government, are - have been too quick to dismiss the concerns of these families without studying the population that got sick. I haven't seen major studies that focus on - three hundred kids, who got autistic symptoms within a period of a few weeks of a vaccine. I think that the public health officials have been too quick to dismiss the hypothesis as irrational, without sufficient studies of causation. I think that they often have been too quick to dismiss studies in the animal laboratory, either in mice, in primates, that do show some concerns with regard to certain vaccines and also to the mercury preservative in vaccines. The government has said, in a report by the Institute of Medicine - and by the way, I'm a member of the Institute of Medicine. I love the Institute of Medicine - but a report in 2004 - it basically said, 'Do not pursue susceptibility groups. Don't look for those patients, those children, who may be vulnerable'. I really take issue with that conclusion. The reason why they didn't want to look for those susceptibility groups was because they're afraid if they found them - however big or small they were - that that would scare the public away. First of all, I think the public's smarter than that; the public values vaccines. But, more importantly, I don't think you should ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because you're afraid of what it might show!" Â Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 "Paging Doctor Rob. Doctor Rob, to the Spraydiactrics Ward." Quote
rob Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) still waiting, but in the meantime, here's something that might interest you and the others who are researching this subject: Yout still haven't answered my question. You claim you're not anti-vaccine, so let us know which ones you gave your kids. Stop avoiding the question. Just say, "none" if that's the case. Â Â First of all, I think the public's smarter than that; the public values vaccines. Â Do you value vaccines, Kimmo? Which ones? Edited January 20, 2011 by rob Quote
Kimmo Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Dr. Rob, I'm coming to you for advice here; please tell me which vaccines you think are important to give. All of them and keep it simple? If it's some of them, please tell me which ones. Should I get the polio? rubella? Â We didn't allow them to give the hepb the day she was born. she's two now and kind of wild; should we reconsider? Â How about Chicken Pox? We always thought this was a rather innocuous rite of passage, but now I'm not so sure: be safe and get the shot? Â Dr. Rob, please consider dispensing advice without fee this one time. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 How about shutting the fuck up? Â No charge. Quote
kevbone Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Dr. Rob, I'm coming to you for advice here; please tell me which vaccines you think are important to give. All of them and keep it simple? If it's some of them, please tell me which ones. Should I get the polio? rubella? Â We didn't allow them to give the hepb the day she was born. she's two now and kind of wild; should we reconsider? Â How about Chicken Pox? We always thought this was a rather innocuous rite of passage, but now I'm not so sure: be safe and get the shot? Â Dr. Rob, please consider dispensing advice without fee this one time. Â Â Quote
billcoe Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 How about shutting the fuck up? No charge. For someone who is a self proclaimed "intellectual", (note use of "quotation marks") your lack of both vocabulary and intelligence is at times startling. This must be learned from your work as a leader of both the ACLU and the United Nations? LOL! Quote
JayB Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 still waiting, but in the meantime, here's something that might interest you and the others who are researching this subject:Â Our new section is perhaps highlighted by the testimony via an exclusive CBS interview of Dr. Bernadine Healy, the former Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) regarding this vaccine controversy. In this interview, Dr. Healy says, "I think the government, or certain health officials in the government, are - have been too quick to dismiss the concerns of these families without studying the population that got sick. I haven't seen major studies that focus on - three hundred kids, who got autistic symptoms within a period of a few weeks of a vaccine. I think that the public health officials have been too quick to dismiss the hypothesis as irrational, without sufficient studies of causation. I think that they often have been too quick to dismiss studies in the animal laboratory, either in mice, in primates, that do show some concerns with regard to certain vaccines and also to the mercury preservative in vaccines. The government has said, in a report by the Institute of Medicine - and by the way, I'm a member of the Institute of Medicine. I love the Institute of Medicine - but a report in 2004 - it basically said, 'Do not pursue susceptibility groups. Don't look for those patients, those children, who may be vulnerable'. I really take issue with that conclusion. The reason why they didn't want to look for those susceptibility groups was because they're afraid if they found them - however big or small they were - that that would scare the public away. First of all, I think the public's smarter than that; the public values vaccines. But, more importantly, I don't think you should ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because you're afraid of what it might show!" Â Â Kimmo-sabe: Â If you're really interested in the "truth' - that is, the closest approximation available to mankind at any given moment in time - you should at least take the time to understand what the scientific consensus is. That is, what the people who have the most salient expertise and training, and comprehensive knowledge of the literature, and familiarity with the most up-to-date literature believe to be the case. That's not perfect, it is subject to change when new evidence becomes available - but it's much more reliable than the voice of the lone heretic, no matter how impressive their credentials may seem. Â There have definitely been cases where the lone heretic has prevailed, but they've done so on the strength of the evidence that they've been able to back their claims with - not their credentials alone. The guy who became convinced that ulcers were caused by H.Pylori is a good example of the lone heretic who prevailed. Linus Pauling is a good example of a brilliant investigator - one of the most brilliant chemists of the 20th century - who doggedly championed an idea (the health benefits ofmegadoses of vitamin C) that was ultimately rejected for lack of evidence. Â If you're going to take a step as dramatic as deciding not to vaccinate your child, I think that you should at least ground that decision on something firmer than an odd quote or two from Bernadine Healy that seem vaguely sympathetic to the claims of vaccine denialists. In the past ten years alone there have been dozens and dozens of large-scale clinical and epidemiological investigations into the claims that the MMR vaccine, thimerisol, etc cause autism. Â If you're going to persist in a serious conversation about vaccines, you should not only familiarize yourself with this literature, but you should also at the very least acquire a graduate-level immunology text and study it carefully so that you are able to understand what you're reading. Â Â Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Note "the note" to note the use of quotation marks. Quote
billcoe Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Note "the note" to note the use of quotation marks. Â noted. Quote
Kimmo Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Â If you're really interested in the "truth' - that is, the closest approximation available to mankind at any given moment in time - you should at least take the time to understand what the scientific consensus is. That is, what the people who have the most salient expertise and training, and comprehensive knowledge of the literature, and familiarity with the most up-to-date literature believe to be the case. That's not perfect, it is subject to change when new evidence becomes available - but it's much more reliable than the voice of the lone heretic, no matter how impressive their credentials may seem. Â There have definitely been cases where the lone heretic has prevailed, but they've done so on the strength of the evidence that they've been able to back their claims with - not their credentials alone. The guy who became convinced that ulcers were caused by H.Pylori is a good example of the lone heretic who prevailed. Linus Pauling is a good example of a brilliant investigator - one of the most brilliant chemists of the 20th century - who doggedly championed an idea (the health benefits ofmegadoses of vitamin C) that was ultimately rejected for lack of evidence. Â If you're going to take a step as dramatic as deciding not to vaccinate your child, I think that you should at least ground that decision on something firmer than an odd quote or two from Bernadine Healy that seem vaguely sympathetic to the claims of vaccine denialists. In the past ten years alone there have been dozens and dozens of large-scale clinical and epidemiological investigations into the claims that the MMR vaccine, thimerisol, etc cause autism. Â If you're going to persist in a serious conversation about vaccines, you should not only familiarize yourself with this literature, but you should also at the very least acquire a graduate-level immunology text and study it carefully so that you are able to understand what you're reading. Â Â absolutely. been there done that. your point? Quote
minx Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 OMFG Kimmo you are the most ridiculous illogical poster of all time. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Must be tough being a parent, reading all that graduate level material and still having time to hunt for Sasquatch. Quote
JayB Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Â If you're really interested in the "truth' - that is, the closest approximation available to mankind at any given moment in time - you should at least take the time to understand what the scientific consensus is. That is, what the people who have the most salient expertise and training, and comprehensive knowledge of the literature, and familiarity with the most up-to-date literature believe to be the case. That's not perfect, it is subject to change when new evidence becomes available - but it's much more reliable than the voice of the lone heretic, no matter how impressive their credentials may seem. Â There have definitely been cases where the lone heretic has prevailed, but they've done so on the strength of the evidence that they've been able to back their claims with - not their credentials alone. The guy who became convinced that ulcers were caused by H.Pylori is a good example of the lone heretic who prevailed. Linus Pauling is a good example of a brilliant investigator - one of the most brilliant chemists of the 20th century - who doggedly championed an idea (the health benefits ofmegadoses of vitamin C) that was ultimately rejected for lack of evidence. Â If you're going to take a step as dramatic as deciding not to vaccinate your child, I think that you should at least ground that decision on something firmer than an odd quote or two from Bernadine Healy that seem vaguely sympathetic to the claims of vaccine denialists. In the past ten years alone there have been dozens and dozens of large-scale clinical and epidemiological investigations into the claims that the MMR vaccine, thimerisol, etc cause autism. Â If you're going to persist in a serious conversation about vaccines, you should not only familiarize yourself with this literature, but you should also at the very least acquire a graduate-level immunology text and study it carefully so that you are able to understand what you're reading. Â Â absolutely. been there done that. your point? Â The fact that you cite Healy and Sears as opposed to the large scale clinical/epidemiological studies that have been conducted to address any connection between the MMR vaccine, or thimerosol, and autism suggests that you're not actually familiar with the science or the scientific literature. Â What specific large scale clinical/epidemiological studies are you basing your conclusions on, and which graduate level immunology text did you study? In what way does the combination of the two support your conclusion that the medical risks presented by vaccination outweigh the benefits? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Have you considered home schooling? Not that having your little disease carriers attending public schools wouldn't be appreciated.... Quote
rob Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) And not only is there a complete lack of evidence linking thimerosal to autism, I don't think he even realizes that most pediatric vaccines don't even HAVE thimerosal these days. Â http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm096228.htm#t1 Â Edited January 20, 2011 by rob Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Does basic civilization really need to be this tough? Edited January 20, 2011 by tvashtarkatena Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 And hey, don't even think about listening to your doctor. WTF do THEY KNOW? Quote
kevbone Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 OMFG Kimmo you are the most ridiculous illogical poster of all time. Â Hey Minx...you cant take my title and just hand it to someone else. Quote
prole Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Let's see. Wipe your ass, spay or neuter your pets, and vaccinate your kids. Yes, that about covers it. Quote
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