Forrest Service Parking Permit

[Lucky Larry]

Well, I can now longer just tear up those toothless FS tickets I always got at the trail head; now they send them to the US attorney's office in Eugene, OR via, get this, central violations bureau in Atlanta , GA cost of ticket is $75-unless for some strange reason they leave the whole ticket: copies, pink, white, yellow on your car with the whole ticket book.Hee-Haw.Lucky Larry

[Mr. Hands]

Your a fucking dumb ass... I'm sure they gave you every ticket for a reason (weathe you like it or not). Assholes like you tearing them up are the reason they do this shit. Pay your users fees and get over it you fucking whiner.

[Lucky Larry]

Your a fucking dumb ass... I'm sure they gave you every ticket for a reason (weathe you like it or not). Assholes like you tearing them up are the reason they do this shit. Pay your users fees and get over it you fucking whiner.

I've been paying 4 years before u could wipe; they were called taxes lefty.

[Mr. Hands]

I was paying taxes before your mom could wipe. Your not that fucking old. Damn well since I pay taxes the feds might as well just give me the gas to drive to the crag. Or they should have guys that wipe your ass in the shitters. Now thats what I expect when I pay my taxes. Suck it OLDLARRY!

[tomtom]

Serious rc.com material. And you think you are superior?

[curtveld]

I was paying taxes before your mom could wipe. Your not that fucking old.

Pretty funny having a pissing match break out over who is OLDER....and both acting like four-year-olds in the process.

[billcoe]

Well, I can now longer just tear up those toothless FS tickets I always got at the trail head; now they send them to the US attorney's office in Eugene, OR via, get this, central violations bureau in Atlanta , GA cost of ticket is $75-unless for some strange reason they leave the whole ticket: copies, pink, white, yellow on your car with the whole ticket book.Hee-Haw.Lucky Larry

 

These tickets and the whole pay to park on your own land are more bullshit that should be stopped. http://www.westernslopenofee.org/

[ScottP]

C'mon guys, keep up...

http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/earth_to_forest_service_recreation_fee_program_is_still_illegal/C146/L41/

[chris]

I don't think its that simple, Scott. Whatever the court decides, the Larry on the ground is going to keep issuing tickets until the USFS brass tells him to stop. Until the USFS makes and announces a formal policy change, I'm going to keep looking over my shoulder.

[cynicalwoodsman]

This issue is forever old. The bummer is that user fees and parking pass cash goes to the wilderness program within that district to maintain the lot and all else. Ticket fees goes to the agency, and the local wilderness dept, let alone that district, gets none of it.

We hate payin'. But we forget to consider what those trailheads, along with the trail, would look like: trash, blowdowns forever un cleared, SAR, etc, had it not been for the forest circus doin' all the work to keep wilderness lookin' like wilderness for the last 40-sum years.

Just sayin'.

[Lucky Larry]

I was paying taxes before your mom could wipe. Your not that fucking old. Damn well since I pay taxes the feds might as well just give me the gas to drive to the crag. Or they should have guys that wipe your ass in the shitters. Now thats what I expect when I pay my taxes. Suck it OLDLARRY!

sorry your such an angry old man, maybe you should go to the spray section bro, get well soon

[Lucky Larry]

This issue is forever old. The bummer is that user fees and parking pass cash goes to the wilderness program within that district to maintain the lot and all else. Ticket fees goes to the agency, and the local wilderness dept, let alone that district, gets none of it.

We hate payin'. But we forget to consider what those trailheads, along with the trail, would look like: trash, blowdowns forever un cleared, SAR, etc, had it not been for the forest circus doin' all the work to keep wilderness lookin' like wilderness for the last 40-sum years.

Just sayin'.

it's all about priorities and nuclear missiles win

[chris]

This issue is forever old. The bummer is that user fees and parking pass cash goes to the wilderness program within that district to maintain the lot and all else. Ticket fees goes to the agency, and the local wilderness dept, let alone that district, gets none of it.

We hate payin'. But we forget to consider what those trailheads, along with the trail, would look like: trash, blowdowns forever un cleared, SAR, etc, had it not been for the forest circus doin' all the work to keep wilderness lookin' like wilderness for the last 40-sum years.

Just sayin'.

I don't think its that simple either. The USFS seems to immensely top-heavy, and the man-hours spent "administering" programs seems grossly misspent. Its notably challenging for the USFS to organize or manage volunteer trail crews, and good samaritans who do the work un-authorized and caught get slapped with a significant ticket instead. This top-down, heavy handed mindset causes a lot of the inefficiencies, in my opinion, and so they have to charge things like parking fees.

This is nothing that will be solved quickly, because the government is a big organism and change takes time. So we will be speaking about this for a long time to come.

[ScottP]

I'm no lawyer, but my point was that the more times a judge overrules a fine, the closer we are to the end of this unfair fee requirement. Yes, charge for toilets and trash removal, but making us pay where there are no such amenities is wrong.

[glassgowkiss]

Unfortunately fees lead to more fees:

http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pt/denalinatparkfeeincrease

[bwwakaranai]

Just a friendly reminder about the fffd! up parking situation at The Bend in Tieton River Canyon. What a nice little buisness they have there making $136 per ticket. Three of us got tagged on that particular day. Huge turn-out that would fit about 100 cars and has signs that are so faded and posted behind a tree no less and only posted on one side. What a joke. Oh yeah its a fishing permit you must purchase. I saw exactly 0 fishermen there all three days. May you choke on a big fat something Mr. Ranger. BTW, nothing is written about this in the State guide which I realize is vague at best but... wah wah wah

[ilookeddown]

Well the NW Forest pass is still only $30. The WA State Land Use Permit (w/o fishing license) is $10. A snopark pass is going to run you $80(if you happen to park where there is a groomed trail) unless you have a snowmobile and it is basically free when you pay your registration ($30 or $12 if you have a vintage). I think that is total bull shit! You can register your vehicle and get a pass valid anywhere for less that ½ of a skiier? They groom hundreds of miles of trail for the sleds and basically nothing if you xc ski.

 

It all comes down to our voice in the community and how we are represented. Until then I am going to buy a POS snowmobile from the '70’s off craigslist so I can get a break on my snopark pass.

 

[mark1980]

Vote for smaller government, it is top heavy. We need less bureaucratic fingers in our wallets, including those in the F.S.

[j_b]

Hint: haven't you noticed the correlation between people bleating for "small government" and the appearance of pay-to-play fees? There are inefficiencies in most bureaucracies but nothing's free. If you don't pay for it through taxes, you'll pay for it as a user.

[glassgowkiss]

Hint: haven't you noticed the correlation between people bleating for "small government" and the appearance of pay-to-play fees? There are inefficiencies in most bureaucracies but nothing's free. If you don't pay for it through taxes, you'll pay for it as a user.

I wonder how can you justify proposal of peak fee for Denali NP $500USD? If it goes through it will be cheaper to go to Pakistan and climb on trekking permit. Gee, why don't they raise the cost of everyone entering NP? Why targeting one group?

[j_b]

Although a Denali mtn fee may be OK, I am in general against user fees on public land because it amounts to regressive taxation. I am only saying that if people don't want to pay taxes (usually what people mean by "small government"), the money to manage public land has to come from somewhere. The generalization of pay-to-play fees is due to the anti-tax vote but this discussion should probably take place in spray.

[mark1980]

What’s wrong with bleating for a smaller government consisting of bureaucracy’s that operate efficiently. Government inefficiencies don’t have to be a fact of life and if they are all the more reason to limit governments’ size. The argument for less government isn’t about decreasing taxes, it’s about limiting them from increasing.

 

Yes, nothing is for free. That’s why a taxpayer, whose recreational passion is bowling, with no desire to head for the hills, should have to pay thru taxation for road maintenance and the other costs that enable access for recreational purposes in our national forests. The F.S. used to be more involved in forest management, managing the natural resource as an income source form logging. That income from logging is limited today and I’d rather pay an access fee than see logging operations paying for the upkeep of roads. You’d just think that with thirty percent of our income going to federal taxes, not to mention what goes to the state, and the hidden taxes, that are in everything we consume, that something could be done better, and expanding the government beyond the size it is now, is not the answer. Maybe it’s time to rethink the Forest Service’s practices and along with many other government agencies.

 

[shinsain]

As an FS employee all I'm going to say is that the upkeep of "your" (our) public land is expensive. I don't like it any more than the next person, and I get no free passes (believe me, I wish I did), but the reality is that nice trailheads, shitters, fire crews/management, range management, wilderness communication, law enforcement (for those truly abusing our land), and many other things are sorely underfunded from the government budget unfortunately. So...we all do our part and enjoy our land that we have to work and pay for. Left unkempt and unregulated, it would be much worse.

 

If you pay the fees, you don't get nasty tickets in the end. Probably time to suck it up and fall in line. It sucks, I know.

[ScaredSilly]

The F.S. used to be more involved in forest management, managing the natural resource as an income source form logging. That income from logging is limited today and I’d rather pay an access fee than see logging operations paying for the upkeep of roads.

 

Extractive private usage of public lands has never earned the general public anything. It has always cost the tax payer $$. For instance, many of the damn roads built by loggers get turned over to the Forest Service, who then in turn credit the loggers for building it!!! Then the Forest Service has to maintain the damn thing! That in my book that practice is a subsidy. If crap like that went away I might be will to pay to play but until the subsidies for extractive industries ends - forgot it.

[jmace]

Left unkempt and unregulated, it would be much worse.

 

Oh fer sure, you should see Canada its a freaking nightmare up here, all we can hope for is more regulation!!!

 

ya right hahahahha

 

Probably time to suck it up and fall in line