beacon bolting question?

[LostCamKenny]

I'm personally completely against retrobolting existing lines at Beacon for any reason, but particularly to make them 'safer'.

but YWs is an exception, huh, dude?

 

 

[geoff]

I'm personally completely against retrobolting existing lines at Beacon for any reason, but particularly to make them 'safer'.

but YWs is an exception, huh, dude?

 

 

Climbed this on Sat. Didn't notice any new bolts on the existing line.

 

 

[JosephH]

...but YW is an exception, huh, dude?

Kenny, 'rebolting' lacks the 'tro' that would redefine it as 'retrobolting'. The difference between the two could only be considered subtle under some pretty special circumstances.

[crimper]

i don't know what arent did once the pin pulled. i just know he said he retreated back to the anchor, and i think that was because there wasn't any gear there.

 

has anyone reading this led "blood sweat and smears" in the past 2-3 years?

[JosephH]

Now that you mention it, I gave Cartier a belay on it last year or the year before and I believe he was saying at the time that the start seemed a bit spicer than he recalled from the time he had last done it - probably because that pin never got put back in. Bottom line with angles is that between the back of the spine and the edge of the flanges they just have too little material in actual contact with the rock to really last reliably over the long haul.

[eldiente]

Climbed Blood Sweat and Smears recently. Felt about the same as it always does, I don't recall there being any missing pro. (Although I wouldn't know how it used to be, my first time up it was a two years ago)

[LostCamKenny]

...but YW is an exception, huh, dude?

Kenny, 'rebolting' lacks the 'tro' that would redefine it as 'retrobolting'. The difference between the two could only be considered subtle under some pretty special circumstances.

perhaps, but only in a special understanding of it all. you did "re(tro)bolt" YW, though, against the wishes of the first ascentionist, too, i might add... (Jim said you never asked if he minded that you did that, but you said that you had talked with him about it and he told you it was ok). several of the bolts have moved (ive seen where you patched the old holes - you'd have to be blind to not see them) and i'm not sure what effect this has on the route but i'm sure that when/if jim climbs it this year he will have plenty to say on how it is all f**ked up now.

 

 

[ivan]

Climbed Blood Sweat and Smears recently. Felt about the same as it always does, I don't recall there being any missing pro. (Although I wouldn't know how it used to be, my first time up it was a two years ago)

done it once a year for the past 3 years i think, all in the poorest of styles of course - the start is indeed stupid thin n' skerry, but not so bad in the big picture - wouldn't be suprised at all if there was a pin in there once (speaking of finger-pullable pins, took one out right by the rat's nest of bolts n' pins at the anchor there 2 years ago i think) - also wouldn't care if a pin got reset at the start of that 2nd pitch

[pink]

...but YW is an exception, huh, dude?

Kenny, 'rebolting' lacks the 'tro' that would redefine it as 'retrobolting'. The difference between the two could only be considered subtle under some pretty special circumstances.

perhaps, but only in a special understanding of it all. you did "re(tro)bolt" YW, though, against the wishes of the first ascentionist, too, i might add... (Jim said you never asked if he minded that you did that, but you said that you had talked with him about it and he told you it was ok). several of the bolts have moved (ive seen where you patched the old holes - you'd have to be blind to not see them) and i'm not sure what effect this has on the route but i'm sure that when/if jim climbs it this year he will have plenty to say on how it is all f**ked up now.

 

 

[JosephH]

...but YW is an exception, huh, dude?

Kenny, 'rebolting' lacks the 'tro' that would redefine it as 'retrobolting'. The difference between the two could only be considered subtle under some pretty special circumstances.

perhaps, but only in a special understanding of it all. you did "re(tro)bolt" YW, though,

Well, who could have anticipated? Apparently you actually don't know the difference between retrobolting and rebolting. Ok then, cool, but I think someone else is going to have to help you out with understanding the difference.

 

(Jim said you never asked if he minded that you did that, but you said that you had talked with him about it and he told you it was ok).

Hmmm, almost hard to respond to a statement this convoluted, but what the hell, it's cc.com, so let's just jump in there with both feet. Now, questions of just how apropos the Internet is for discussing Jim's ideas and remembrances aside, I'll just assume you're misquoting whatever he actually did say.

 

First off, the bolts on YW were/are in horrible shape and needed to be replaced. I let Jim know what I had in mind, to which he replied, in effect, every bolt on the route was in perfect shape and wouldn't need replacing and could never be replaced without screwing up the route because every bolt was in the 'perfect' spot. You may or may not forgive me, but I took those statements to be a bit laden with hyperbole, and so offered to do it with him so he could look at the condition of each bolt himself. We were lined up to do that before he hurt his knee. But it was a task I had set myself to get done last year as lugging all that shit around is better done at the end of the season than the start of it, and I did in fact go ahead with the replacements once I found out he was out of commission for the foreseeable future. Of the p1 and p2 bolts I replaced, two were solid and probably would have gone another five years, the rest were shot. The bolts were not 'moved' other than to provide a minimal distance from the previous hole. So, that's what actually went down; but let's be clear, under no circumstances, or at anytime, have I ever told anyone that "Jim said it was ok"

 

But hey, there are no shortage of folks who have climbed the route since those bolts were swapped out and they are all welcome to chime in here with their statements about how the route climbs differently at all or "how it is all fucked up now". Please, would love to hear those comments. Maybe start with you given you said you just climbed it - how did the rebolting degrade your experience on those pitches?

 

P.S. Oh, and I also fixed the loose bolt on the p4 crux, feel free to comment on the trouble with that decision as well.

[geoff]

Well, I didn't even notice, but thanks JH.

[LostCamKenny]

yada, yada, yada... ssdd.

[justinp]

have you seen my baseball

 

[stevetimetravlr]

I think Kenny's point is that while Joseph like to jump on peoples shit for even joking around or mentioning about putting in or pulling a pin or bolt or people cutting off his nylon slings that are all over Beacon, he feels empowered to install or pull any pins or bolts or anchors or slingage that HE deems neccessary. I think its great that we have new replacement bolt anchors at Beacon and those efforts are appreciated. However, he jumps all over my shit about the preservation of a route and respecting the climbers that went before us, etc, regarding a off the cuff comment I made, while at the same time he modifies a route in direct violation of the wishes of the first ascentionist who is in the house. This double standard, and also the down talking to people, is what has made me feel like he should be called on it. I am sure you'll come up with some great putdown as to why I am such a idiot and don't know jackshit about Beacon Joseph, but you seem to have a sense of entitlement that you don't extend to anyone else.

Justin, did you really loose one of your balls? Does that mean no more leading?

 

[denalidave]

...but YW is an exception, huh, dude?

Kenny, 'rebolting' lacks the 'tro' that would redefine it as 'retrobolting'. The difference between the two could only be considered subtle under some pretty special circumstances.

perhaps, but only in a special understanding of it all. you did "re(tro)bolt" YW, though, against the wishes of the first ascentionist, too, i might add... (Jim said you never asked if he minded that you did that, but you said that you had talked with him about it and he told you it was ok). several of the bolts have moved (ive seen where you patched the old holes - you'd have to be blind to not see them) and i'm not sure what effect this has on the route but i'm sure that when/if jim climbs it this year he will have plenty to say on how it is all f**ked up now.

 

 

[denalidave]

have you seen my baseball

Or my black Kershaw pocket knife? I think I may have lost it on the north side last spring.

[justinp]

Justin, did you really loose one of your balls? Does that mean no more leading?

Naw just wanted to add some substance to this thread Hopeing to make it up that way shorlty to hang out with ya cock smokers . Maybe I'll bring my drill

[JosephH]

... he feels empowered to install or pull any pins or bolts or anchors or slingage that HE deems neccessary. I think its great that we have new replacement bolt anchors at Beacon and those efforts are appreciated.

Other than actually doing something, I'm no more 'empowered' than you or anyone else. And nothing is happening out there randomly, bad anchors have simply been replaced. The latter doesn't happen without the former.

 

while at the same time he modifies a route in direct violation of the wishes of the first ascentionist who is in the house.

The route wasn't modified. As stated before that would be 'retrobolting'. The route has been modified several times over the last five years by rockfall and people tearing holds off, but that's it.

 

This double standard, and also the down talking to people, is what has made me feel like he should be called on it.

Hey, pull out your keyboard and start misrepresenting the facts, shit-talking my way, or taking conversations negative and you're likely to get what you get.

 

...but you seem to have a sense of entitlement that you don't extend to anyone else.

No entitlement involved. You want to take a shot at getting the closure lifted or modified? Have at it. Clean out one of the column routes? Very cool! I have a tool set just for that you're welcome to use. An anchor, pin, or bolt needs replacing? I have plenty of hangars, bolts, pins, rings, and slings available for you to use and a drill and hammer if you need one. Trash needs to be picked up? Pick it up and haul it out. Big, bad loose rock juju somewhere? Sort out a strategy for dealing with it safely with the BRSP. Need any help doing any of the above? Pm me here, I'm up for it. Bitch and whine like a little cyber girl and do nothing? You're on your own.

[billcoe]

Hola Beacon Pole smokers!

 

Same same, can someone finally put out a new edition?

 

 

Wait, nevermind as it's the samesame - no need for a new edition. Samesame

Edited August 18, 2010 by billcoe

[denalidave]

Hola Beacon Pole smokers!

 

Same same, can someone finally put out a new edition?

 

 

Wait, nevermind as it's the samesame - no need for a new edition. Samesame

Cue shot of PINK SOLOING LIL WING! Plus, HE climbed EL CAP!!!

[pink]

... he feels empowered to install or pull any pins or bolts or anchors or slingage that HE deems neccessary. I think its great that we have new replacement bolt anchors at Beacon and those efforts are appreciated.

Other than actually doing something, I'm no more 'empowered' than you or anyone else. And nothing is happening out there randomly, bad anchors have simply been replaced. The latter doesn't happen without the former.

 

while at the same time he modifies a route in direct violation of the wishes of the first ascentionist who is in the house.

The route wasn't modified. As stated before that would be 'retrobolting'. The route has been modified several times over the last five years by rockfall and people tearing holds off, but that's it.

 

This double standard, and also the down talking to people, is what has made me feel like he should be called on it.

Hey, pull out your keyboard and start misrepresenting the facts, shit-talking my way, or taking conversations negative and you're likely to get what you get.

 

...but you seem to have a sense of entitlement that you don't extend to anyone else.

No entitlement involved. You want to take a shot at getting the closure lifted or modified? Have at it. Clean out one of the column routes? Very cool! I have a tool set just for that you're welcome to use. An anchor, pin, or bolt needs replacing? I have plenty of hangars, bolts, pins, rings, and slings available for you to use and a drill and hammer if you need one. Trash needs to be picked up? Pick it up and haul it out. Big, bad loose rock juju somewhere? Sort out a strategy for dealing with it safely with the BRSP. Need any help doing any of the above? Pm me here, I'm up for it. Bitch and whine like a little cyber girl and do nothing? You're on your own.

 

 

[kevbone]

I think Kenny's point is that while Joseph like to jump on peoples shit for even joking around or mentioning about putting in or pulling a pin or bolt or people cutting off his nylon slings that are all over Beacon, he feels empowered to install or pull any pins or bolts or anchors or slingage that HE deems neccessary. I think its great that we have new replacement bolt anchors at Beacon and those efforts are appreciated. However, he jumps all over my shit about the preservation of a route and respecting the climbers that went before us, etc, regarding a off the cuff comment I made, while at the same time he modifies a route in direct violation of the wishes of the first ascentionist who is in the house. This double standard, and also the down talking to people, is what has made me feel like he should be called on it. I am sure you'll come up with some great putdown as to why I am such a idiot and don't know jackshit about Beacon Joseph, but you seem to have a sense of entitlement that you don't extend to anyone else.

Justin, did you really loose one of your balls? Does that mean no more leading?

 

 

Holy crap....post of the year!!!!

 

Thank god I am not the only one who see's Joseph's hypocrisy/double standard.

 

[JosephH]

Holy crap....post of the year!!!!

 

Thank god I am not the only one who see's Joseph's hypocrisy/double standard.

Coming from someone who is definitely too busy looking for his baseball to do anything but bitch, I'll take that as a high complement.

[LUCKY]

I think Kenny's point is that while Joseph like to jump on peoples shit for even joking around or mentioning about putting in or pulling a pin or bolt or people cutting off his nylon slings that are all over Beacon, he feels empowered to install or pull any pins or bolts or anchors or slingage that HE deems neccessary. I think its great that we have new replacement bolt anchors at Beacon and those efforts are appreciated. However, he jumps all over my shit about the preservation of a route and respecting the climbers that went before us, etc, regarding a off the cuff comment I made, while at the same time he modifies a route in direct violation of the wishes of the first ascentionist who is in the house. This double standard, and also the down talking to people, is what has made me feel like he should be called on it. I am sure you'll come up with some great putdown as to why I am such a idiot and don't know jackshit about Beacon Joseph, but you seem to have a sense of entitlement that you don't extend to anyone else.

Justin, did you really loose one of your balls? Does that mean no more leading?

 

 

Holy crap....post of the year!!!!

 

Thank god I am not the only one who see's Joseph's hypocrisy/double standard.

JosephH the Counterintuitive Beacon rock ROCKCOP

[stevetimetravlr]

If you take that as a complement, I'm curious is that with or without vaseline? Just trying to keep it real. . Beacon brothers gotta hug!