I admit, I am (mostly) Anti-Bolt

[lizard_brain]

I can't help but think that some day things are going to pendulum in the other direction. Years from now people will be looking for bolt-free climbing areas to give themselves a chance to really test their climbing skills. (Sort of fits in with what will s. said.)

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

Oooh!

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How little is your pony anyways 'bone??

 

[willstrickland]

quote:

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Originally posted by lizard brain:

I can't help but think that some day things are going to pendulum in the other direction. Years from now people will be looking for bolt-free climbing areas to give themselves a chance to really test their climbing skills.

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Here's my slant on that:

Now that the companies and mags (aka the Marketing Forces) have made climbing somewhat mainstream and gotten all these new people involved through the relavtively simple pursuits of sport and gym climbing and bouldering they'll start making their move. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that trad or wall climbing requires much more gear (and hence generates much more money). It's already happended with ice climbing, now start running all these stories about how cool big walling is and how rad the trad climbers are...EUREKA! A surge in sales of trad and wall gear and a boon for the Market Forces...shops, manufactuers, and mags. Just wait, it will happen.

 

[Alpine_Tom]

quote:

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Originally posted by willstrickland:

Here's my slant on that:

Now that the companies and mags (aka the Marketing Forces) have made climbing somewhat mainstream and gotten all these new people involved through the relavtively simple pursuits of sport and gym climbing and bouldering they'll start making their move. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that trad or wall climbing requires much more gear (and hence generates much more money). It's already happended with ice climbing, now start running all these stories about how cool big walling is and how rad the trad climbers are...EUREKA! A surge in sales of trad and wall gear and a boon for the Market Forces...shops, manufactuers, and mags. Just wait, it will happen.

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And they'll figure out in about a second that you can make WAY more money selling camalots, nuts, hexes, etc etc etc than you can selling quickdraws.

In a year or two, bolts will be about as fashionable as those knickers FB used to pose in back in the day.

 

[Dru]

It is already happening - been happening for about 5 years. But everyone wants to boulder to be the coolest. Wait till Sharma leads A5+ and Tori Allen climbs 14a offwidth in a sport bra. then you will see the masses switch.

[Lambone]

quote:

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Originally posted by Alpine Tom:

And they'll figure out in about a second that you can make WAY more money selling camalots, nuts, hexes, etc etc etc than you can selling quickdraws.

In a year or two, bolts will be about as fashionable as those knickers FB used to pose in back in the day.

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Dru is right, walls came into vouge in the mags bag in '95 or so. Now there is at least one Yosemite issue a year, and one Big wall story in each month. Keep your damn hands off my pony Dru!

But, I'd disagree with Tom. I think Companies make a lot more money on quikdraws than they do on Trad gear, and not just 'cause they sell more of them. Think about it, the production cost is lower. They can stamp out 500 cheap biners in one shot. Plus, prison labor is pretty cheap these days. But alot more work, testing, machining, and assembling goes into a cam. The margines are lower on Trad stuff.

Keep your hopes up, but bolts or SUV's aren't goin out of style anytime soon.

[This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-11-2001).]

[texplorer]

Some reasons why trad climbing might not catch on:

1) It's too scary

2) It will require many people to learn to climb cracks instead of all those little monos

3) Trad gear is expensive (you'll have to get a job)

4) Everything will be bolted by 2010

5) Would you wanted to be associated with someone like pope or cavey

6) Trad gear is 'heavy' and 'bulky' and rips holes in spandex

7) You'll go from climbing 5.12 to 5.8 instantly

8) There's not as many chics on the N Face of the Grand

9) Taped hands leave that sticky stuff on you for days and shaved wrists just aren't in style these days

10) Could'nt think of another reason to make an even ten

[Lambone]

10) It really hurts when you pull the tape off. Especialy if you have hairy hands!

[nolanr]

Where did that "moondancing" thing come from originally? I skimmed thru the whole thread and couldn't find it until Dru mentioned it. Was it from another thread? And if nobody knows what it is or understands it (except for a very select few, apparently), how can you make a living doing it? Oh, I got it, Cat Stevens was being followed by a Moondancer back in the '70's.

[nolanr]

Sexual Chocolate,

It's a mixed bag around here. There's some serious and intelligent dialogue, there's lots of sarcasm and sophomoric potty mouth humor, there's even some open hostilities from time to time. That's unfortunate if you've been offended by the detour onto moondancing on this thread, but if you'd taken a look around you might have expected as much here. Also, at the same time you're defending the legitimacy of what you do and insulting certain posters as being too small minded to understand it, you haven't really made any attempt to explain it beyond vagueries. I think people are probably going to keep spoofing it if they have no idea what it is, and you seem to be the only one who knows what it is. Just my $.02, got to this discussion a little late, but I laughed out loud several times while reading the thread and I am kinda curious what moondancing is.

[Lambone]

Did'nt you ever watch My Little Ponies! Geezz, get with it man!

No,Moondancers are not the guys walking around the Dead Lot all covered in glitter...

Dude, go rent the My Little Pony video. Then you will find out what moodancers are.

[jhamaker]

Climbing was once associated with wilderness.

Vantage was once just a crag.

Now the BLM wants your money.

Why?

(Ten) fold increase in trafic in ten yrs

Why?

Bolts, guide book, popularity of (sport) climbing.

How many more sacrifice areas can we afford?

[lizard_brain]

quote:

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Originally posted by nolanr:

Sexual Chocolate,

It's a mixed bag around here. There's some serious and intelligent dialogue, there's lots of sarcasm and sophomoric potty mouth humor, there's even some open hostilities from time to time. That's unfortunate if you've been offended by the detour onto moondancing on this thread, but if you'd taken a look around you might have expected as much here. Also, at the same time you're defending the legitimacy of what you do and insulting certain posters as being too small minded to understand it, you haven't really made any attempt to explain it beyond vagueries. I think people are probably going to keep spoofing it if they have no idea what it is, and you seem to be the only one who knows what it is. Just my $.02, got to this discussion a little late, but I laughed out loud several times while reading the thread and I am kinda curious what moondancing is.

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Right on, nolan! I think 'spoofing' is a key word there. I don't think we were criticizing sexy - just making fun of him. Yeah, I know it isn't always pretty, but when an easy target comes into range, well...

I like this board not only for its information and dialogue, but for its entertainment value as well. Yeah, the humor is often sophomoric, but I enjoy it, and take part from time to time.

And I still can't tell if sexy is really serious or just a genius troller!

[Peter_Puget]

Now where have I heard this before? In the final analysis what the antibolters are saying is simply "I like" or "I want" or "I prefer". These preferences are no different than saying "I like green" or "I hate blue" What is frustrating is when people try to degrade other preferences through their use of words or use them as a means to justify or elevate their simple preference. For example, comments like "bolts enable to climb harder than they would without them." Hmmm such statements are in so self evident as to be meaningless except as a means to put "people in their place" ( BTW the same can be said for ropes) Climbing is a big sport with lots of fascinating parts some of which often appear mutually exclusive! Some only like climbing in the gym. Some like only 3rd/4th class scrambles. Others big wall nailing. People want and enjoy different things about climbing. One aspect is not more inherently noble than any other. Too often those who are "antibolting" loose track of this fact. Too often bolters ignore how their actions impact others. I ME MINE Thats the refrain!

When such preferences are elevated to a moral plane, their advocates themselves become immoral.

[MysticNacho]

So, sexual chocolate, coming from someone who has no clue what moondancing is and the only point of my inquiring is curiosity, what is it? I think we all have some pretty flakey and dirty ideas floating around in our heads and it would help if we got some clarification to dispel the myths.

[MysticNacho]

By the way Caveman and Dru, (although more caveman than dru) where on earth do you get all those unique smiley pictures? You have a new one for every thread!

[sexual_chocolate]

go to hell, lizard brain. Just drop it. forget I ever brought it up.

What do YOU do for a living?

[lizard_brain]

Touchy!

[This message has been edited by lizard brain (edited 10-11-2001).]

[Dru]

I don't want that chocolate, I'm staying with Nutella. Mmmmm Nutella.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Chill

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-11-2001).]

[sexual_chocolate]

Yeah it's easy for you guys to be all "chill" and "touchy" and shit, but you guys didn't just go through the blender, defending your art. I did.

I do what I do, and I love what I do, but it's the ignorance and scorn that you guys express that makes it hard. But I've had to deal with that my entire career, so you guys are actually quite easy.

Anyway, I would just suggest a little sensitivity when you encounter something you don't understand. Often, the things we don't understand end up being the most wonderful discoveries and gifts in our lives.

[Terminal_Gravity]

Pope; Peace man...Sorry Dru no point in a battle here.

Dru: I gotta agree with you about Nutella.

Will:

You're clearly right about misplaced attitude about Friends. My boycott is just a reaction to my frustration at the inability to do anything once a hold is chopped. I also try like hell to boycott Chinese goods because of thier wholesale slaughter of Tibetian culture. Thats a tough thing to do. Why companies like Marmot get things made in China is beyond me. And, Yes I agree about Hill. I was hoping to read a comment from you about my original posting.

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

Yeah it's easy for you guys to be all "chill" and "touchy" and shit, but you guys didn't just go through the blender, defending your art. I did.

I do what I do, and I love what I do, but it's the ignorance and scorn that you guys express that makes it hard. But I've had to deal with that my entire career, so you guys are actually quite easy.

Anyway, I would just suggest a little sensitivity when you encounter something you don't understand. Often, the things we don't understand end up being the most wonderful discoveries and gifts in our lives.

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is an art????

 

[lizard_brain]

Spare us the martyrdom, choc.

Let's get back to fruitless bickering about bolts.

[Retrosaurus]

Sexual is advertising BUTT CANDY, but no one is buying. So sad.