JosephH Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Two or three years ago in Eldo a guy leading pulled a [known] loose microwave-size block off a route leading over it after commenting it was loose to his belayer. His belayer didn't get up from sitting cross-legged or move his belay. The block trashed the leader in the very same manner as described in the accident above and then the block fell in his belayer's lap. Both ended up in very bad shape, lucky to end up alive at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Nice picture, glad you are OK. I use a Grigri all the time for belaying, as I nearly killed my climbing partner once when I lost my footing at the base of the wall, taking a hard 20 foot belayer swing into the cliff. I've been seriously climbing for 15 years and I can say that I let go of the rope that day, the Grigri saved Bob's life. I thought that it would never happen to me. I guess I was mistaken. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cascadesdj Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 There have been 2 deaths at Vantage, ever, neither by rockfall or bolt failure. One--inexperienced trad placements on Air Guitar, the other by rapping with only one side of the rope down. My rules there: helmet, don't stand in the zone of potential falling rocks, use grigri, never belay sitting down, pay attention, the last of which I admittedly have not always followed as closely as I should, you know, talking while belaying, etc. Anyway, I think with these rules, the danger is can be minimized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatboy Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I don't recommend that any of you ever go to Vantage again...it's too crowded with suicidal people like me. Especially in the springtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 There have been 2 deaths at Vantage, ever, neither by rockfall or bolt failure. One--inexperienced trad placements on Air Guitar, the other by rapping with only one side of the rope down. My rules there: helmet, don't stand in the zone of potential falling rocks, use grigri, never belay sitting down, pay attention, the last of which I admittedly have not always followed as closely as I should, you know, talking while belaying, etc. Anyway, I think with these rules, the danger is can be minimized. Â right because accidents like the Vance Atkins one from he 90s where he broke off a big hold which broke his belayers arm, then fell on his belayer since he was no longer belayed, breaking his leg and rupturing the belayer's spleen, don't kill anybody so they are acceptable right? Â vantage is a pile. it will never in a trillion years magically turn into solid rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryographer Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I realize I'll be spray/crucified for what I'm about to say... Nevertheless, I've witnessed serious rockfall at almost every premier crag in the NW (Beloved Index included, but not Equinox yet...)and it seems to me if one merely glances at the base of a crag, that rockfall has been and will continue to be a factor in this environment regardless of human interaction. There are gyms around if that's not your thing. But to completely quit a crag for it's reputation or any singular experience seems absurd. Do you expect alpine rock routes to be void of rockfall as well? We all realize that our hobby is dangerous, yet that may also be part of why we do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlawrence10 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 There have been 2 deaths at Vantage, ever, neither by rockfall or bolt failure. One--inexperienced trad placements on Air Guitar  That would have been Goran Kropp, right? I know he died there, was it a bad placement? I only know about his mountaineering exploits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevino Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) Personally I think everyone should stop climbing at vantage. It is too dangerous for people from seattle to drive over on spring weekends. Edited February 21, 2010 by kevino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displaced Native Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I remember climbing Seneca Rocks in West By God back in the day. We were a pitch up Solar Direct and I was just hanging out belaying, looking over at another pair running up some hardman route. The belayer was looking at me, I was looking at them...then their 2 foot wide, 10 foot long ledge cut loose off the side of the wall and left them hanging off their own belay tie ins. It's pretty crazy watching things go geological. Â I recall pulling a microwave size block loose at the Gunks in the late 90's as well. My sister in law was on belay below me...somehow the balance point was just right and I was able to keep it on the ledge. Would have made a really red stain when it crushed her into the dirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankazoid Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 It's everywhere y'all.... Last year iwas belaying my friend on pumpline-careno crag in l-w when a fist sized rock smacked me in the forehead. Â Just remember to bring beer and ciggs so you have something to mellow out with after being attacked by stone. It's super cool to have a fucked up face when the ladies ask what happened and you tell them about how you climb mountains. Because your a man. Argg. Right? That's why I climb anyway- for the cougars. They dig it. Ladies: Due to a high volume of pm's from other beautiful women, I won't be able respond to new messages until next Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cascadesdj Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 There have been 2 deaths at Vantage, ever, neither by rockfall or bolt failure. One--inexperienced trad placements on Air Guitar, the other by rapping with only one side of the rope down. My rules there: helmet, don't stand in the zone of potential falling rocks, use grigri, never belay sitting down, pay attention, the last of which I admittedly have not always followed as closely as I should, you know, talking while belaying, etc. Anyway, I think with these rules, the danger is can be minimized. Â right because accidents like the Vance Atkins one from he 90s where he broke off a big hold which broke his belayers arm, then fell on his belayer since he was no longer belayed, breaking his leg and rupturing the belayer's spleen, don't kill anybody so they are acceptable right? Â Uh, no, not accetable. So let's look at the above common sense rules I listed that those guys broke: In the fall zone? obviously yes, grigri? I doubt it, paying attention? I can't say for sure. Helmet? dunno. I can say, however, they failed to do what they could do to minimize the danger. And we need to do whatever we can to minimize the danger whenever climbing. Â Should we all quit alpine climbing because of the regular litany of fatalities we hear about every season?. Some of them are really "roll of the dice" ones. i.e, the Rainier (1981?) 10 or 11 dead in the STANDARD route ice wall collapse, Luebben this past summer, Alex Lowe, Lacelle, etc etc Even if you keep your head totally in the game, I bet statistically, you're more likely to die in the alpine than at Vantage. Â vantage is a pile. it will never in a trillion years magically turn into solid rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cascadesdj Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 There have been 2 deaths at Vantage, ever, neither by rockfall or bolt failure. One--inexperienced trad placements on Air Guitar  That would have been Goran Kropp, right? I know he died there, was it a bad placement? I only know about his mountaineering exploits...  Yup, Kroop. The line apparently unzipped. From what I heard, he was not an experienced trad guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyt Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 The Kropp accident  Vantage was a bit of a war zone this weekend. The dogs were especially bad, young pups venturing off-trail and starting talus slides onto the lower tier.  I heard some people went for the Torres del Plumas traverse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) There have been 2 deaths at Vantage, ever, neither by rockfall or bolt failure. One--inexperienced trad placements on Air Guitar, the other by rapping with only one side of the rope down. My rules there: helmet, don't stand in the zone of potential falling rocks, use grigri, never belay sitting down, pay attention, the last of which I admittedly have not always followed as closely as I should, you know, talking while belaying, etc. Anyway, I think with these rules, the danger is can be minimized. Â right because accidents like the Vance Atkins one from he 90s where he broke off a big hold which broke his belayers arm, then fell on his belayer since he was no longer belayed, breaking his leg and rupturing the belayer's spleen, don't kill anybody so they are acceptable right? Â vantage is a pile. it will never in a trillion years magically turn into solid rock. Â Yes, a pile just like Glacier Point Apron. Face it, as other posters have suggested, rock fall and loose holds are a part of the climbing life and I will still say that dangerous rock fall at Vantage per climbing day is not that much different than at other areas of all kinds of rock. To be truly safe, stay home in a rocking chair and risk a heart attack and a life limited by fear of risk. Edited February 22, 2010 by matt_warfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 saying that all climbing is risky so therefore, climbing at Vantage is OK is like saying that all sex is risky so therefore, being Vinnie Knuckles' prison bitch is OK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Why do people most often reference home appliances when describing rockfall? Why "a rock the size of a toaster" or "a piece as large as a microwave" and not "a rock nearly one cubic foot (or decimeter) in volume" or "half the size of a rolled up futon mattress"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvshaker Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 It's got to be from the childhood game 20 questions. "Is it bigger then a breadbox?" Â It's also ironic that the most fearsome componant of rock climbing (rockfall) also provides one of the most satisfying sensations in life.....purposly dislogding a big block 350 sized rock down a cliff. Â Ahhhhhhhhh. Even the smell is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Because I spend most of my time in the kitchen eating and I'm not familiar with other objects in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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