Power drilling in Wilderness Areas

[dberdinka]

Dickhead has a very valid point. Until you've actually gone out and put in the extensive time, hard work and $$$ of visualizing and then creating a high quality rock climb you simply don't get a voice in the discussion because you have no clue what your talking about. Seriously, it will change your perspective on the conversation.

 

If there is one ethic everyone seems to respect it's the style of the first ascensionist. If youy don't like the style with which other people are establishing routes then go out and show them how it's done. Until then you just sound stupid.

[MarkMcJizzy]

Nice job editing your previous post Richard, so Bug's rejoiner to you loses it context.

 

Your actions were and are very disingenous

 

For the record

 

 

I think you are wrong here, I see one of the developers of IB regularly, mostly because I am in the loop of climber’s put’n up first accents, new crags and new routes in the NW ... he does take feedback from those that climb, but not from non climbing jerks spray’n shit on the internet.

Drag'n this topic up is just mank and spray’n shit just keeps the climbers on this site from free floating beta, so just keep talk’n smack, the route has become a NW classic and is here to stay.

TO ALL YOU SPRAY TALK'N WANKERS GO CLIMB SOMETHING, PUT UP YOUR OWN FIRST ACCENTS SO WE CAN TALK SMACK ABOUT YOU, WTF HAVE YOU DONE FOR MY CLIMBING EXPERANCE

 

Once again proving,

 

It's all about you.

 

[MarkMcJizzy]

Dickhead has a very valid point. Until you've actually gone out and put in the extensive time, hard work and $$$ of visualizing and then creating a high quality rock climb you simply don't get a voice in the discussion because you have no clue what your talking about. Seriously, it will change your perspective on the conversation.

 

If there is one ethic everyone seems to respect it's the style of the first ascensionist. If youy don't like the style with which other people are establishing routes then go out and show them how it's done. Until then you just sound stupid.

 

You're joking, right?

[richard_noggin]

Nice job editing your previous post Richard, so Bug's rejoiner to you loses it context.

 

Your actions were and are very disingenous

 

For the record

 

 

I think you are wrong here, I see one of the developers of IB regularly, mostly because I am in the loop of climber’s put’n up first accents, new crags and new routes in the NW ... he does take feedback from those that climb, but not from non climbing jerks spray’n shit on the internet.

Drag'n this topic up is just mank and spray’n shit just keeps the climbers on this site from free floating beta, so just keep talk’n smack, the route has become a NW classic and is here to stay.

TO ALL YOU SPRAY TALK'N WANKERS GO CLIMB SOMETHING, PUT UP YOUR OWN FIRST ACCENTS SO WE CAN TALK SMACK ABOUT YOU, WTF HAVE YOU DONE FOR MY CLIMBING EXPERANCE

 

Once again proving,

 

It's all about you.

GLAD YOU CLEARED THAT UP!

 

No I rewrote it to put it more in context, same post.

Edited January 29, 2010 by richard_noggin

[dberdinka]

No. The vast majority of climbers are reliant on the creativity and hardwork of a few

[kevbone]

No. The vast majority of climbers are reliant on the creativity and hardwork of a few

 

 

Sooooooooo true.

[MarkMcJizzy]

No. The vast majority of climbers are reliant on the creativity and hardwork of a few

 

And the masses have no say or control in how these selfless elite alter a public resource?

[dberdinka]

Say all you want. Those who DO don't care.

[kevbone]

No. The vast majority of climbers are reliant on the creativity and hardwork of a few

 

And the masses have no say or control in how these selfless elite alter a public resource?

 

Nope. Sad but true.

 

I have put up a dozen route and helped with alot more....I do not consider myself elite. More like fortunate to be part of something special.

[richard_noggin]

No. The vast majority of climbers are reliant on the creativity and hardwork of a few

 

And the masses have no say or control in how these selfless elite alter a public resource?

 

Yeah!!! Don't climb and talk shit on the internet like rainpuss and poop

That in contex for you

Selfless elite you mean the ones, risk’n their ass, spending time, money and hard work putting up FA’s

Edited January 29, 2010 by richard_noggin

[richard_noggin]

The next time you climb a route you might think what went into that route, like how did those anchors get there or that 2 ton block you ass is belay’n off of was on the route or the fact that the route took a week to put up so your ass could climb it in less than an hour.

The first accent team of Ib spent two summers of their life, untold danger and money to put up that route for the rest of us than you set back on the computer and talk shit

 

[MarkMcJizzy]

Risking their ass? It is more like work than Omaha Beach. And as far as $$$$$$$$$, then are we going to compare dick size and only allow those who have donated to the Index Fund to climb there, and give a free pass to the larger contributes so they do not have to wait in line on popular routes?

[MarkMcJizzy]

The next time you climb a route you might think what went into that route, like how did those anchors get there or that 2 ton block you ass is belay’n off of was on the route or the fact that the route took a week to put up so your ass could climb it in less than an hour.

The first accent team of Ib spent two summers of their life, untold danger and money to put up that route for the rest of us than you set back on the computer and talk shit

 

 

I really don't think that after 35 years of climbing, I need you explaining anything about the process. I get it, I have eyes, and a very good understanding

[richard_noggin]

No. The vast majority of climbers are reliant on the creativity and hardwork of a few

 

And the masses have no say or control in how these selfless elite alter a public resource?

 

Public resource have you even stood at the base, would you even know it was there if not for the internet , most of the climbing I have done I would not even know of the area if there was not climbing there, I suppose that is why most of us climb , just to get out and see new places.

[richard_noggin]

Risking their ass? It is more like work than Omaha Beach. And as far as $$$$$$$$$, then are we going to compare dick size and only allow those who have donated to the Index Fund to climb there, and give a free pass to the larger contributes so they do not have to wait in line on popular routes?

I think at this time most relize you are talk'n out your ass

[MarkMcJizzy]

I suppose that is why most of us climb , just to get out and see new places.

 

I'll leave it at that. I totally agree with you.

[matt_warfield]

The next time you climb a route you might think what went into that route, like how did those anchors get there or that 2 ton block you ass is belay’n off of was on the route or the fact that the route took a week to put up so your ass could climb it in less than an hour.

The first accent team of Ib spent two summers of their life, untold danger and money to put up that route for the rest of us than you set back on the computer and talk shit

 

 

I agree with noggin. The FA was done without realizing they were in wilderness but it seems ridiculous to chop the route and then reestablish it by drilling by hand which in MOP would not happen. What is done is done and folks are really enjoying the climb. And the FA team is responsible for a huge number of routes enjoyed by many. It was an honest mistake that required a huge commitment.

[JosephH]

The next time you climb a route you might think what went into that route, like how did those anchors get there or that 2 ton block you ass is belay’n off of was on the route or the fact that the route took a week to put up so your ass could climb it in less than an hour.

The first accent team of Ib spent two summers of their life, untold danger and money to put up that route for the rest of us than you set back on the computer and talk shit

They put a lot of time, effort, and expense into building the Trojan Nuke plant too. And lots of folks were all for it and really liked all the cheap power despite the fact it sat yards from the Columbia. But it was a bad idea, poorly thought out, and had shoddy core tube welding. Eventual result:

 

 

I personally put IB in with Trojan relative to how good an idea it was and how well it was done - badly.

[G-spotter]

I do not consider myself elite. More like fortunate to be part of something special.

 

Ya, the 5 ring special. Elite shortbus window licking microcephalic

[Edlinger]

The perception that internet sprayers are not putting up routes or climbing at the very highest standards being done in the cascades is simply a falacy. Even if Infinite Bliss never gets cleaned up (rap retro-bolts removed), I'm sure that the dialogue about this route and several other trash piles that have been done by the same route developer will trickle over to the developers of such routes. Perhaps the dialogue has already spread. All I want is for anyone that ever rap bolts with a gas or battery drill to think about the line for a few minutes before they drill away. Think about the clips, the falls, the rests, the wildnerness zones, the history, the style of other adjacent climbs and for the record I sport climb and open new sport routes a ton. Yes it is true, some of the folks that are good friends of mine that have put up the many of routes at rock areas like Vantage and exit 38 don't really care about this issue, but that is not the point.

 

The saddest part of this thread is that it doesn't say "Infinite Bliss" in the title and thus will get little internet traffic.

[richard_noggin]

The perception that internet sprayers are not putting up routes or climbing at the very highest standards being done in the cascades is simply a falacy. Even if Infinite Bliss never gets cleaned up (rap retro-bolts removed), I'm sure that the dialogue about this route and several other trash piles that have been done by the same route developer will trickle over to the developers of such routes. Perhaps the dialogue has already spread. All I want is for anyone that ever rap bolts with a gas or battery drill to think about the line for a few minutes before they drill away. Think about the clips, the falls, the rests, the wildnerness zones, the history, the style of other adjacent climbs and for the record I sport climb and open new sport routes a ton. Yes it is true, some of the folks that are good friends of mine that have put up the many of routes at rock areas like Vantage and exit 38 don't really care about this issue, but that is not the point.

 

The saddest part of this thread is that it doesn't say "Infinite Bliss" in the title and thus will get little internet traffic.

 

Edited January 30, 2010 by richard_noggin

[Bug]

Public resource have you even stood at the base, would you even know it was there if not for the internet , most of the climbing I have done I would not even know of the area if there was not climbing there, I suppose that is why most of us climb , just to get out and see new places.

Yup. I was climbing there befoer IB was started. Liked it just the way it was. There were several other climbers in the area that liked it too. They can enter this fray or not on their own volition. Most of the climbing I have done has been in new areas that I searched out and explored. I almost never carried a bolt kit and still climbed for months at a time. Sometimes solo other times random partners. Maybe if you tried this approach you would realize that we don't need to put all that work into routes like IB. I mean, its there and all and I don't criticize people for climbing it. But I do think it is worth noting that it is a questionable place for bolts and that there should not be any more routes like it in wilderness. Especially not on Garfield.

[richard_noggin]

Edited January 30, 2010 by richard_noggin

[lancegranite]

Dickhead has a very valid point. Until you've actually gone out and put in the extensive time, hard work and $$$ of visualizing and then creating a high quality rock climb you simply don't get a voice in the discussion because you have no clue what your talking about. Seriously, it will change your perspective on the conversation.

 

If there is one ethic everyone seems to respect it's the style of the first ascensionist. If youy don't like the style with which other people are establishing routes then go out and show them how it's done. Until then you just sound stupid.

 

Well said, my thoughts exactly.

So many inspirational new routes have gone up this last couple years.

Want to make your point? Do it the old fashoned way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pope]

Dickhead has a very valid point. Until you've actually gone out and put in the extensive time, hard work and $$$ of visualizing and then creating a high quality rock climb you simply don't get a voice in the discussion because you have no clue what your talking about. Seriously, it will change your perspective on the conversation.

 

If there is one ethic everyone seems to respect it's the style of the first ascensionist. If youy don't like the style with which other people are establishing routes then go out and show them how it's done. Until then you just sound stupid.

 

Well said, my thoughts exactly.

So many inspirational new routes have gone up this last couple years.

Want to make your point? Do it the old fashoned way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here, let me try:

 

Until you've cut down an old-growth cedar tree in a national park, until you've invested the enormous amount of energy and vision required to create a picnic table from that tree, and until you've busted your ass hauling that picnic table up from tree line and carefully placed it in an appropriate alpine meadow, "....you simply don't get a voice in the discussion because you have no clue what your [sic] talking about. Seriously, it will change your perspective on the conversation."