Braydon Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 I've been following these workouts for a little bit now and am loving them. One thing I can't seem to understand though is the 25-15-9 reps concept. First of all what is this so I know I'm doing these right in the first place and second of all why does it work?
Farrgo Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 A WOD with a rep scheme like that is usually done: example deadlift, pushup, pullup 25, 15, 9x in this order: deadlift 25x, pushup 25x, pullup 25x, deadlift 15x, pushup 15x, pullup 15x, deadlift 9x, pushup 9x, pullup 9x
fern Posted December 20, 2009 Posted December 20, 2009 25-15-9 is not CrossFit... you are obviously a poser everyone ELITE enough to be a REAL crossfitter knows it is *21* - 15 - 9 jeesh ... there should be some sort of quality control on this ...
Farrgo Posted December 20, 2009 Posted December 20, 2009 That explains why I haven't became an uber-human yet... forgot to follow coach's WODs to the T.
Braydon Posted December 21, 2009 Author Posted December 21, 2009 25-15-9 is not CrossFit... you are obviously a poser everyone ELITE enough to be a REAL crossfitter knows it is *21* - 15 - 9 jeesh ... there should be some sort of quality control on this ... Hahaha my bad dude...typo
giza Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 a rep scheme like 21-15-9 is intended to be performed at a high intensity. Think puking and/or passing out. Regarless of the exercises involved, you should be ripping through a 21-15-9 in less than 20 minutes trying to target the phospho-glugacon metabolic pathway. Thus you're doing anaerobic work, gasping for air, not taking breaks, being ELITE. Anything less, you're a pussy. Puddles of puke, rhabdo, cuts, bruises and injuries are a badge of honor. You're on your way to elite fitness when your kidney fails.
eldiente Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Think puking and/or passing out. This makes me laugh. When's the last time you saw an Olympic marathon runner puke? Or Lance Armstrong finish a time trial and collapse? That's right, these guys aren't elite and not trying hard enough. I've never understood why anyone thinks falling over after a work-out is a good idea. Puking? I could break my finger with a hammer and the pain might cause me to puke, doesn't mean that I got a good workout.
Bishopp66 Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Think puking and/or passing out. This makes me laugh. When's the last time you saw an Olympic marathon runner puke? Or Lance Armstrong finish a time trial and collapse? That's right, these guys aren't elite and not trying hard enough. I've never understood why anyone thinks falling over after a work-out is a good idea. Puking? I could break my finger with a hammer and the pain might cause me to puke, doesn't mean that I got a good workout. Are you kidding me? I can guarantee that there are many elite athletes working out this way and pushing themselves to the limit and even puking...maybe not at theie time trial, but in their preparation for sure. Just sounds like someone who is scared to work hard, so they try to find fault with others who are pushing the limits. I can hear it now at Gym Jones... "stop working so hard, I don't want you to puke!" (Says Mark Twight... yea right)Put your fear aside and give it a try, you might be impressed with the results.
JosephH Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 a rep scheme like 21-15-9 is intended to be performed at a high intensity. Think puking and/or passing out. Regarless of the exercises involved, you should be ripping through a 21-15-9 in less than 20 minutes trying to target the phospho-glugacon metabolic pathway. Thus you're doing anaerobic work, gasping for air, not taking breaks, being ELITE. Anything less, you're a pussy. Puddles of puke, rhabdo, cuts, bruises and injuries are a badge of honor. You're on your way to elite fitness when your kidney fails. Doesn't sound anything like the workout of the 54yo guy who just led all the pitches of the Nose in 15 hours. He must be doing it wrong.
giza Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I couldn't agree more! But if you're doing a CrossFit metcon workout with a 21-15-9 rep scheme, you are supposed to be going balls out. If you're taking breaks, drinking water, chatting, etc. you're doing it wrong. People puke regularly doing CrossFit - it's part of the game, regardless of whether you or I think it's a good workout. The mascot of CrossFit is a puking clown! I'm just telling it like it is dude.
giza Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 54 yr old leading all Nose pitches in 15 hrs. Wow, that's impressive!!
ryanb Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 It is a little known fact that virtually every hard pitch in the REAL MOUNTAINS has 21 hard moves, then a ledge then 15 hard moves then a ledge and then 9 hard moves. This is why cross fitters are able to climb so hard in the mountains where no one can see them but flail at crag climbing where the moves come in other denominations and routes require odd techniques like resting.
Bishopp66 Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 The flip-side of this discussion is that there are many roads to becoming a "hard-man" and crossfit (or Gym Gones, Mountain athlete etc.) is not the ONLY way to get there. I can only say that my time in the gym has gone from 2hrs+ a day to about 45 minutes including warm-up and cool-down and I am lighter, faster and stronger then I have ever been. (But alas, still no hard-man in sight)
JosephH Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 Training: Cardio. In February I started doing a bike training workout on my fluid trainer in the garage. This gives me a solid 45 minute cardiovascular workout. I'm usually sweating like a pig when I'm done, even in the cold garage. I do this three days a week if I don't go skiing on Friday. I did this till it got warm enough to actually go outside and ride my bike. There are great mt bike trails five minutes from my house and I would do a 10 mile ride two or three times a week after work. Weights: Also in February I started lifting weights. At the start it was three sets of 10-12 but every six weeks I'd take a week off and change the weight/set combo. For the last two months I was doing one set of 11 different exercises, 50 reps. My exercises come from a book "The Secrets of Advanced Bodybuilders" by Health for Life. I find their regime very good for me since for every pushing exercise you do you then do a pulling exercise. I find the regime very efficient since I can usually barely do the last sets/reps when I get to them. I also do their "Legendary Abs" routine. I also did a lot of heavy finger rolls and a simulated rope climbing thing. Climbing: On Fridays I would get out to real rock but two mornings a week I went over to the local sports club which has a boring 30 foot tall vertical wall. I'd string a rope up each of the four routes and climb up and down each route four times or for 45 minutes which ever came first. I self belayed using a Petzl ASAP. I must have looked like quite the geek as I climbed with all the gear mentioned above but including a 70 oz Camelbak. I was trying to simulate the weight of the actual gear I'd use on the route. Recovery. Protein Power, Glucosamine and Chondroitin pills. Two beers a day, without fail. I took about two weeks off just before the beginning of the trip to ensure I was plenty rested.
hydroman Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 People puke regularly doing CrossFit I'd say that's stretching things a bit... Occasionally someone might hurl lunch but I'd say it's rare, and if it's a regular thing something is very wrong. I've been crossfitting for several years and some of the folks at the gym are beasts. I've seen someone puke maybe a handful of times over those years and these folks are pushing hard. The idea is to get to the edge and ideally not cross over. Feeling like you got hit by a bus regularly is one thing while puking is another. As for elite athletes puking. I agree it definitely happens during all out events. Talk to some rowers about races and see what they say...
el jefe Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 joseph, that's a pretty intense routine you've quoted from mark hudon, but it is by no means the only or necessarily even the best way to get fit for the nose in a day. training for climbing is by no means so formulaic primarily because there hasn't been a lot of scientific study of it. mostly what you find is reports like hudon's: "i did this and achieved that as a result" -- a sample of one with no control whatsoever. i strongly suspect mark hasn't tried a number of times to do the nose in a day and failed, then only succeeded when he instituted the workout regimen you quote; if he had, then there would be some reason to think that this workout (rather than any other workout -- such as crossfit --that boosted overall fitness) was an essential ingredient. i think one key thing is to achieve a high degree of overall physical fitness and there are many roads that will take you to that end.
rocky_joe Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 Are you kidding me? I can guarantee that there are many elite athletes working out this way and pushing themselves to the limit and even puking...maybe not at theie time trial, but in their preparation for sure. Just sounds like someone who is scared to work hard, so they try to find fault with others who are pushing the limits. I can hear it now at Gym Jones... "stop working so hard, I don't want you to puke!" (Says Mark Twight... yea right)Put your fear aside and give it a try, you might be impressed with the results. Well, I can't speak for all Olympians and extreme athletes, but since I know two (Galen Rupp, 10k and Andy Wheating, 800m) and have seen several others training around town, I can say that they do not puke/pass out during workouts. Having, myself, trained at a really high level for middle distance for quite some time I can say that the only people who puke from working out are not in shape. Puking, at least when invoked by running, is a result of a poorly trained core...I can guarantee you there are no Olympic/elite level athletes who have this problem. As for passing out...if you do this there is something wrong with one of two things, either your nutrition or the design of your work outs. moral of the story, you might puke once or twice when starting really intense workouts, but it shouldn't and won't continue past the first few weeks. you should NEVER be passing out.
eldiente Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 Are you kidding me? I can guarantee that there are many elite athletes working out this way and pushing themselves to the limit and even puking...maybe not at theie time trial, but in their preparation for sure. So you're saying that an olympic athlete is not going all out in a close race and is holding something back? Maybe, who knows what goes on in someone's head. Although I'd think most folks at that level of competition are going all-out in a way that none of us could even imagine, 100%+. At the end of hard race, these guys aren't puking or rolling around the ground. You'll see cyclist a immediately get on the trainer and spin out, a runner does light jogging etc. It is possible to work really f**ing hard and still be able to cool down properly. Of course nobody at X-fit really cares, it is hard to brag on your WOD blog about a cool down.. Sounds much better to talk about puking or passing out.
JosephH Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 joseph, that's a pretty intense routine you've quoted from mark hudon, but it is by no means the only or necessarily even the best way to get fit for the nose in a day. training for climbing is by no means so formulaic primarily because there hasn't been a lot of scientific study of it. mostly what you find is reports like hudon's: "i did this and achieved that as a result" -- a sample of one with no control whatsoever. i strongly suspect mark hasn't tried a number of times to do the nose in a day and failed, then only succeeded when he instituted the workout regimen you quote; if he had, then there would be some reason to think that this workout (rather than any other workout -- such as crossfit --that boosted overall fitness) was an essential ingredient. i think one key thing is to achieve a high degree of overall physical fitness and there are many roads that will take you to that end. There are undoubtably many roads to Rome - but being fairly Edisonian in my approach to such matters I stop once I find a verifiable solution to a problem. Mark's is very much just that. Why should I screw around with anything else when I know this approach yields exactly the result I'm after?
el jefe Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 so is that your workout routine, joseph? how much time does it take you each day? just curious.
JosephH Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 Not yet, I'm dug in coding for the winter, I'll be cranking it all back up around the end of Feb.
genepires Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 The real question is puking necessary for real effort? I would think that passing out is an obvious undesirable habit wherever and whenever. it is interesting you mention gym jones. I doubt that much puking goes on there (in the gym but maybe across the street at a pub) at either gym jones or mtn athlete. The "puking" thing is limited to crossfit so I bet it is a "click'ish thing and of no real value. If not a detriment to health. Definately builds character and mental strength though.
John Frieh Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 :laf: Why is it I cant resist these threads? When will I ever learn? it is interesting you mention gym jones. I doubt that much puking goes on there (in the gym but maybe across the street at a pub) at either gym jones or mtn athlete. The "puking" thing is limited to crossfit so I bet it is a "click'ish thing and of no real value. If not a detriment to health. Definately builds character and mental strength though. First to quote MFT "puking is a sign of poor programming" Secondly any athlete at gym jones drinks less booze in a year then just about anyone on this site does in a month... if not a weekend. But yeah... given the proper motivation (the carrot... or the stick? or both? ) anybody can puke/pass out. And I'd bet just about any keyboard warrior on cc.com could write a crippling (literally) workout. That said: why do we train? I'd guess most of use training in hopes to be better at something than before we performed the workout/training cycle. So without bogging down in the biochemistry details too much if you reach the point of puking/passing out though you have worked hard ultimately you have done more damage (free radical creation, tissue damage, etc etc) then good (overall improvement to fitness). Numerous examples of this exist... just search "hardest workout" or some variant on youtube... you'll find MMA fighters doing workouts with a gas mask on... is doing tabata sprints on an AirDyne with a gas mask on hard? Hell fucking yes! Will you increase your cardiovascular capacity? Yes! However... will you create a ton of free radicals in your body? You know it! So... though you've performed a really hard workout and chances are you will pass out/puke and/or come really close that said ultimately you have more damage then good and shouldnt have done the workout. That said... to quote MFT (again! ) "Some might consider [what we do] tough simply because what constitutes hard work has slipped over the last 30 years. These days unremarkable fitness is called elite. What we do in the gym isn't old-school hard. But it's passable and our guys fairly capable." Most days I do my best to stay out the hole. Some days I dig a really deep hole.
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