25-15-9 Crossfit???

[Farrgo]

 

Are you kidding me? I can guarantee that there are many elite athletes working out this way and pushing themselves to the limit and even puking...maybe not at theie time trial, but in their preparation for sure.

 

So you're saying that an olympic athlete is not going all out in a close race and is holding something back? Maybe, who knows what goes on in someone's head. Although I'd think most folks at that level of competition are going all-out in a way that none of us could even imagine, 100%+.

 

At the end of hard race, these guys aren't puking or rolling around the ground. You'll see cyclist a immediately get on the trainer and spin out, a runner does light jogging etc. It is possible to work really f**ing hard and still be able to cool down properly. Of course nobody at X-fit really cares, it is hard to brag on your WOD blog about a cool down.. Sounds much better to talk about puking or passing out.

 

 

 

 

If I had to guess, the olympian doesn't curl and hurl after the 400m because he has trained beyond that... simply not possible to make him throw up after 50 sec. of effort. I would guess that applies to many elite athletes.

[giza]

Olympians are specialists in their particular discipline, whether it be 400 m sprinting, gs skiing, or olympic weightlifting. CrossFit is not intended for specialists - in fact, CrossFit punishes the specialist because it's a program intended for general physical preparedness. The reason why military and emergency services people are drawn to it is because the workouts throw random shit at you: one day it'll be a high intensity metcon workout, the next it'll be a 1 rep max deadlift, the next a 10 km run. So if you're a firefighter or a cop and any given day on the job is likely to consist of unknown emergency events that could require endurance over a long period of time or short bursts of high strength, CrossFit training will help prepare for this. If you're an Olympic athlete you're going to be spending more time in a specialized training program to maximize your ability to perform your sport at the highest level. For instance, if you're a sprinter then rope climbing and muscle ups won't do much to help you win a gold medal.

 

CrossFit mainsite programming is a blanket prescription. They provide a daily workout for everyone! Personally, I don't like to follow anything blindly and prefer to have control over how I program my workouts so I don't do CrossFit. And I think anyone who does really has to question this. But CrossFitters are extremely loyal so I'll expect at least one person to step in and defend the CrossFit mainpage programming.

 

Now regarding the puking, this is a badge of honor among CrossFitters. All you have to do to verify my claim is to go to crossfit.com and read the workout comments for any given day.

 

1. is puking authorized for this WOD? 3...2...1!

 

Comment #93 - Posted by: joel s. at December 23, 2009 6:48 AM

 

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2. Ok, I went a little crazy today and felt it.

Round 1-dl 21 times @225, hspus 21

Round 2-dl 15 times @250, hspus 15

Round 3-dl 9 times @275, hspus 9

 

10:30 Met Mr. Pukie

 

Comment #207 - Posted by: craig at December 21, 2009 3:31 PM

 

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3. scaled to 115 lb thrusters...27:12.... No one told me I would meet someone named pukie on this one.... at least no one was around to witness.

 

Comment #84 - Posted by: ej at December 19, 2009 9:52 AM

 

____________________________________________________________________

 

This last dude was rad enough to even include a little smiley emoticon after mentioning how he puked. CrossFit: Forging Elite Fitness!!

 

And here's Pukie The Clown, CrossFit's mascot of elite fitness.

 

[johnson]

That about sums it up. Clowns puke.

[Kimmo]

CrossFit is not intended for specialists

 

i think that pretty much sums it up.

[ryanb]

I think the real reason so many people are drawn to cross fit is laziness. The truth is your body adapts to the stress you put on it it and if you think adapting to 45 minutes of activity on the way home from work is going to help you much you are fooling yourself.

 

In my limited experience, it takes 45 minutes to even get your fingers warm to the point you can't start to safely train for climbing.

 

Cross fit style work outs seem to be good for going from off-the-couch to marginally-in-shape; they may even help an advanced climber prepare for some real training. But, in terms of how much they seem to help your average climber improve, I would rank them slightly better then jazzercise and significantly worse then hot yoga.

 

Have any of you cross fitters actually seen a significant and ongoing increase in how hard you climb in the real world or how many hard moves/pitches you can do in a row?

 

Most people i've know who dedicate themselves to climbing specific training are able to improve by at least a number grade a year into the index 5.11's, and alpine grade V's with progress slowing somewhat beyond that as the climbing gets truly hard...if you are not improving at something like that rate you should change what you are doing.

 

[Kimmo]

Are you kidding me? I can guarantee that there are many elite athletes working out this way and pushing themselves to the limit and even puking...maybe not at theie time trial, but in their preparation for sure. Just sounds like someone who is scared to work hard, so they try to find fault with others who are pushing the limits. I can hear it now at Gym Jones... "stop working so hard, I don't want you to puke!" (Says Mark Twight... yea right)Put your fear aside and give it a try, you might be impressed with the results.

 

that's funny.

 

i don't think gym jones or crossfit is training olympic caliber athletes in any discipline. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

it seems like the whole puking thing is just part of the image that "hardman twight" uses to sell his product. it's not necessarily training smart, it's just aspiring to be a "badass".

 

i think if you're puking regularly, then you're either out of shape, eating too close to intense workouts, or both.

[Sol]

I am in no way endorsing cross-fit as a means to become a better rock climber. But...

 

Tommy Cross-Fits

 

One has to understand the wide spectrum in specializing in rock climbing.

 

Kimmo sending hard redpoints at the Equinox and WW Walls, while Tommy is freeing the hardest el cap routes in a day could both be considered specialized rock climbing but would require different programs. With Tommy having to focus a significant portion of his training on gaining all day and multi-day endurance. Interesting though that the core of each program focus's on many many hours on a steep woody pulling on plastic. Such simple training, yet for many, so hard to execute with consistency and discipline.

 

BTW, Kimmo, been having a blast climbing static style, really makes you focus on your body position and really helps gaining lock-off strength.

 

 

[ryanb]

That Caldwell video is inspiring particularly that he says he is starting to add in crossfit work outs to days where he is spending up to 8 hours training on boulders and sport climbs, running and weight lifting... the dude probably uses the WOD's to cool down at the end of a day of real training simulating hauling shit up the wall after a day of free climbing 5.14 slab.

 

Will Gadd also crossfits and wrote up a great piece on what he see as its pluses and minuses:

 

http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2009/11/congrats-to-gm-crossfit-training-from.html

 

Best quote is in the comments: "Take what works, move on, but train like you fucking meant it."

 

Crossfit definitely has some pluses (alternating sets of opposed exercises is a great idea) but most of the climbers I've known who rely on it as their main training routine seem to plateau HARD.

 

I'm with you on the plastic though I've read that Croft trained in Yosemite by running up hills in the morning, walking down and then running laps on 5.11's all day...

 

 

 

 

 

[Kimmo]

except he's trying to develop all day stamina at a strength and power level that i'm trying to simply achieve! have you seen the pitch difficulty numbers of his project? wowzers. (pet peeve: he says he boulders for 3 mo's to achieve "power", but he's actually achieving strength and power; it seems to me with climbing the two go hand in hand (even in campusing) and you can't have "power" without the requisite strength).

 

cool on the static stuff! just did a little at the gym last night, and will do more tonite. yeah never done anything that resulted so quickly in raw "strength" gains. kinda like gymnasts holding their positions up to a minute as they develop (try staticing a climb sometime where you hold the body position for 10 secs before grabbing the hold, with the hand just hovering over the hold you're gonna grab. fun stuff!).

[Kimmo]

the dude probably uses the WOD's to cool down at the end of a day of real training simulating hauling shit up the wall after a day of free climbing 5.14 slab.

 

i don't think he'll be doing any hauling when he goes for the rp....

 

Best quote is in the comments: "Take what works, move on, but train like you fucking meant(sic) it."

 

 

yeah yeah!

[Kimmo]

from will gadd:

 

"I'm 12-15 pounds heavier after the last three months of going at CF".

 

Yikes!

 

"CF is "agnostic," meaning that it encourages examination, discussion, and experimentation."

 

mebbe just the followers become theists?

 

"CF is not sport-specific, nor does it claim to be. Doing CF to be a better sport climber, runner, swimmer, kayaker, or whatever is a waste of time."

[el jefe]

i think crossfit is a pretty good approach for achieving general physical fitness, which means that it can serve as a foundation that you build upon. at least that is how i use it. i think climbing is a very technique intensive activity so you have to spend a lot of time climbing to be good at it and to improve at it.

 

the will gadd perspective was very interesting. his observation re: shoulder injuries hasn't been born out by my experience, though. i had chronic issues with my shoulders before i started crossfit a couple of years ago and since then my shoulders have been fine. better than in a long time, as a matter of fact.

[John Frieh]

i don't think gym jones or crossfit is training olympic caliber athletes in any discipline. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

You're wrong.

 

Olympic Medalist

 

Pan American

[G-spotter]

"when we did Reality Bath I felt like I was going to puke all day long" - Mark Twight

 

"how come he felt like he was gonna puke? I mean did he eat 6 raw chickens or what?" - Tami Knight

[John Frieh]

How many zone blocks is vomit worth? Is it negative zone blocks?

[Kimmo]

i don't think gym jones or crossfit is training olympic caliber athletes in any discipline. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

You're wrong.

 

Olympic Medalist

 

Pan American

 

interesting. so a medal in luge, and a pan-american medalist in jiu jitsu. it would be interesting to think about the specifics they do in gym jones, and how it relates to their discipline....

 

but i've gotta go to the gym now and do some static climbing.

[John Frieh]

Dude: that is two of many many elite athletes they have there... take 2 minutes and look through the disciples tab for a small sample

 

In fact here is one closer to home for you: James Litz climbs harder than anyone on this page: Scroll down

 

And Ill say it again for those in the cheap seats who didnt hear me

 

NO ONE including GYM JONES/MFT/MTN ATHLETE is claiming their training program will replace your sport specific training.

 

Is it an excellent foundational program that when used as a part of your periodization programming will enhance your sport specific performance? Yes.

[Kimmo]

rad.

[Kimmo]

In fact here is one closer to home for you: James Litz climbs harder than anyone on this page: Scroll down

 

quick point on this: james litz did all his hard climbing BEFORE he ever did crossfit, is this not correct? certainly his V hard stuff, and maybe he had started crossfit when he did his hard 14+ sporto routes last summer, maybe? we'll see what happens in the future with his climbing, but it's disingenious to say crossfit had anything ANYTHING to do with it at this point.

 

my concern would be that he would gain weight, as gadd did during his tenure. for gadd's stuff, not as much a concern, but i doubt litz will be climbing 14+ or V15 if he gains serious weight.

 

Is it an excellent foundational program that when used as a part of your periodization programming will enhance your sport specific performance? Yes.

 

for some things, certainly, without a doubt. for elite level sport climbing and bouldering? not so much.

[Kimmo]

Dude: that is two of many many elite athletes they have there... take 2 minutes and look through the disciples tab for a small sample

 

thanks for the link. i actually took 5 minutes to look through it, instead of the recommended 2, and i'd say that for the guys on that list and with what they do, yeah the activities of crossfit makes sense. although i don't understand jiu jitsu (quite a few of those guys?!?) well enough to understand crossfit's ummm crossover.

 

it seems like we're just arguing for argument's sake, unless you are claiming crossfit to be definitively beneficial for sport climbing and bouldering (i would say it might be in the right situations, but not really sure even of that).

[rocky_joe]

wait, Kimmo, you think John is arguing for argument's sake? Wow, now that's a distorted view of the conversation.

[Kimmo]

Is it an excellent foundational program that when used as a part of your periodization programming will enhance your sport specific performance? Yes.

 

btw, just so you know, i have nothing against crossfit per se, and i have nothing against you per se, i just have, in general, a problem with anyone who makes claims about how their program will help everyone with whatever it is they do (especially when the proclaimant advertises said high-priced services, and is a gumby at the discipline they claim their "program" will help).

 

layton falls into this camp just a little bit, when he dispenses "how-to" RULES as to how one should train for disciplines in which he is not at an elite level. taping fingers for campusing? heavy weight-training for sport climbing?

 

that kind of "rule-making" by amateurs just bugs the heck out of me. shit, elite climbers who coach (except neil gresham, gumby!) don't seem to have half the conceit that so many amateur gumbies have.

[Kimmo]

wait, Kimmo, you think John is arguing for argument's sake? Wow, now that's a distorted view of the conversation.

 

i'm not sure; that's why i qualified my statement as i did.

 

and i think you should be more concerned with keeping your tendons informed of the date than whether or not john is presenting a cogent view of things.

[el jefe]

i'm pretty sure litz was doing crossfit before his 5.14 tear at ten sleep last summer, so doubt that he gained much weight or that it held him back any.

 

all i will say is that i've head pretty good luck with crossfit as part of my routine. it had more effect on telemark skiing and distance running than with climbing, though. overall i'd say the effect on my sport climbing hasn't been profound.

[Kimmo]

i thought he started crossfit rather recently, after his sporto tear? or during his tear? regardless, i think it's evident from his long history of climbing that he already had the skills and strength.

 

this is NOT to say crossfit won't help him in some fashion...