Back to the future!

[tvashtarkatena]

Not to mention tyranny and oppression

[j_b]

No shit. The mob that was cheering on torture, the patriot act, the spying on Americans, the signing statements, and on, now cries about tyranny and oppression. You can't make this stuff up.

 

Any moment now, they'll claim to be for fiscal responsibility.

[Pete_H]

Presidential popularity declining after the first year in office has only happened with the last 43 presidents so this is a real anomaly.

 

Obama's decline is the worst ever recorded in a Gallup poll.

 

-- George W. Bush, 86 percent

-- Bill Clinton, 52 percent

-- George H.W. Bush, 71 percent

-- Ronald Reagan, 49 percent

-- Jimmy Carter, 57 percent

-- Gerald Ford, 52 percent

-- Richard Nixon, 59 percent

-- Lyndon Johnson, 74 percent

-- John Kennedy, 77 percent

-- Dwight Eisenhower, 69 percent

-- Harry Truman, 49 percent

 

 

Huh? This doesn't even make any sense.

[StevenSeagal]

How clueless does one have to be to spew about "statism" after having supported policies that cost trillions in war expenditure and even more trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts and unsecured loans guarantees to the financial sector to barely survive the greatest speculative bubble burst since the 30's?

 

We won't even discuss about having the gall to call that mess "free market". This is way beyond tragi-comedy, rather in the registry of burlesque in fact.

 

Don't bother. Mark Levin is KK's new talking point source. Savage wasn't whiny and angry enough.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

How clueless does one have to be to spew about "statism" after having supported policies that cost trillions in war expenditure and even more trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts and unsecured loans guarantees to the financial sector to barely survive the greatest speculative bubble burst since the 30's?

 

We won't even discuss about having the gall to call that mess "free market". This is way beyond tragi-comedy, rather in the registry of burlesque in fact.

 

Don't bother. Mark Levin is KK's new talking point source. Savage wasn't whiny and angry enough.

 

Fuck off , Sea Gal. I don't listen to any of them. I listen to music in the car and have better things to do than subject myself to venom spewing fucktards like them... or j-b

 

[billcoe]

Isn't it true that 2 out of 5 Americans actually are angry at Obama because they are mixing him up with Tiger Woods?

[StevenSeagal]

 

Fuck off , Sea Gal. I don't listen to any of them. I listen to music in the car and have better things to do than subject myself to venom spewing fucktards like them... or j-b

 

At least you had time to tell me to fuck off...that's cool.

 

The 'music' you listen to wouldn't happen to be the Metallica clips that Savage plays on his show, would it? Nah.

 

Well according to that crowd, if you don't agree with them 100% then you're at Statist, there's no 'middle ground'. I guess you're a Statist, too then. Why are you trying to destroy this country, KK?

 

 

[LostCamKenny]

i voted for nader

[tvashtarkatena]

 

Fuck off , Sea Gal. I don't listen to any of them. I listen to music in the car and have better things to do than subject myself to venom spewing fucktards like them... or j-b

 

At least you had time to tell me to fuck off...that's cool.

 

The 'music' you listen to wouldn't happen to be the Metallica clips that Savage plays on his show, would it? Nah.

 

Well according to that crowd, if you don't agree with them 100% then you're at Statist, there's no 'middle ground'. I guess you're a Statist, too then. Why are you trying to destroy this country, KK?

 

 

Fuck yourself in the ass with a whiffenpoof, douche nozzle! I won't violate my cone of harmony by reading byle and vitriol spewed by The Angry Left! Peace out Asshat!

Edited December 10, 2009 by tvashtarkatena

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

At least you had time to tell me to fuck off...that's cool.

 

The 'music' you listen to wouldn't happen to be the Metallica clips that Savage plays on his show, would it? Nah.

 

 

Michael Weiner bores me. He's just a mirror image of j_b, prole, and any other number of politics-obsesses, extremist psychopaths on this site.

 

Have you gotten out anywhere lately? The recent weather sure make a winter outing palatable (would like more snow though)

 

 

 

[olyclimber]

[video:youtube]w8B-Nokm9K0

[j_b]

Cry me a river! If you guys didn't constantly try to pretend people's eyes are lying to them and didn't generally sound like some characters out of an Orwellian novel, you wouldn't get so much shit from everybody.

 

Just compare your rhetoric with the reality of your politics:

 

- the largest transfer of wealth ever from the middle class to the upper 0.1% of the income bracket and the highest rate of poverty in the developed world = 30 years of “trickle down” goodness

 

- the largest corporate boondoggle ever at taxpayer’s expense, perpetual war, and a 25% increase in effective taxation of the middle class while corporate and upper income tax rates are the smallest in 70 years = “small government”, "free markets" and "fiscal responsibility"

 

- the severest intrusions on privacy and trampling of the constitution in the name of security = “freedom”

 

- And now Obama is widely perceived to be at best ineffective, if not unchallenging of the status quo despite his campaign promises and the severest crisis since the Great Depression = “moderates” are upset with Obama's "statist" policies

 

[billcoe]

I'm sure you'd feel better on all of this if you wouldn't keep watching Fox news jb.

 

Obama said we were getting out of Iraq and deeper into Afganistan. What the hell was that all about? A politician actually keeping a campaign promise! Which of us could have expected that or seen it coming? Zing....right out of left field and here we are.

 

SAME SAME, BUT DIFFERENT

 

[Peter_Puget]

Better watch out J_B or the truth might catch up and spoil your plot....

 

36 percent approve of the Democrats’ health-care plans and 61 percent disapprove. Just last month 46 percent approved and 49 percent did not. ( linky )

 

Here's a polll from that evil FOX!

 

Among Democrats, 63% favor the health care reform legislation, while a large majority (87%) of Republicans and two-thirds of independents (66%) oppose it.

 

 

[j_b]

I don't need to watch FOX to recognize propaganda and the framing of events it puts forward. Since this summer the corporate media has been trying to have us believe that Obama's ratings are going down because of the "middle" or so-called "moderates" which is a lie since Obama has done nothing to upset the middle.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I'm sure you'd feel better on all of this if you wouldn't keep watching Fox news jb.

 

Obama said we were getting out of Iraq and deeper into Afganistan. What the hell was that all about? A politician actually keeping a campaign promise! Which of us could have expected that or seen it coming? Zing....right out of left field and here we are.

 

SAME SAME, BUT DIFFERENT

 

 

STAY THE COURSE!

[j_b]

Better watch out J_B or the truth might catch up and spoil your plot....

 

36 percent approve of the Democrats’ health-care plans and 61 percent disapprove. Just last month 46 percent approved and 49 percent did not. ( linky )

 

Here's a polll from that evil FOX!

 

Among Democrats, 63% favor the health care reform legislation, while a large majority (87%) of Republicans and two-thirds of independents (66%) oppose it.

 

 

You are wrongly assuming that everyone opposes current healtcare reform from the right whereas plenty of people oppose it because it is barely more than another hand out to the insurance industry through forcing the purchase of insurance and nothing to provide competiton to oligopolies. We won't even mention what it does to reproductive rights of women.

[Peter_Puget]

I almost hate to post this but J_B's last post reminded me of the quotation below: (My imitation of the other JayB)

 

Consequently, a proposition of an aprioristic theory can never be refuted by experience. Human action always confronts experience as a complex phenomenon that first must be analyzed and interpreted by a theory before it can even be set in the context of an hypothesis that could be proved or disproved; hence the vexatious impasse created when supporters of conflicting doctrines point to the same historical data as evidence of their correctness. The statement that statistics can prove anything is a popular recognition of this truth. No political or economic program, no matter how absurd, can, in the eyes of its supporters, be contradicted by experience. Whoever is convinced a priori of the correctness of his doctrine can always point out that some condition essential for success according to his theory has not been met. Each of the German political parties seeks in the experience of the second Reich confirmation of the soundness of its program. Supporters and opponents of socialism draw opposite conclusions from the experience of Russian bolshevism. Disagreements concerning the probative power of concrete historical experience can be resolved only by reverting to the doctrines of the universally valid theory, which are independent of all experience. Every theoretical argument that is supposedly drawn from history necessarily becomes a logical argument about pure theory apart from all history. When arguments based on principle concern questions of action, one should always be ready to admit that nothing can "be found more dangerous and more unworthy of a philosopher than the vulgar pretension to appeal to an experience to the contrary,"[4] and not, like Kant and the socialists of all schools who follow him, only when such an appeal shows socialism in an unfavorable light.

 

Precisely because the phenomena of historical experience are complex, the inadequacies of an erroneous theory are less effectively revealed when experience contradicts it than when it is assessed in the light of the correct theory. The iron law of wages was not rejected because experience contradicted it, but because its fundamental absurdities were exposed. The conflict between its most clearly controvertible thesis?that wages tend toward the minimum needed for subsistence?and the facts of experience should have been easily recognized. Yet it is even today just as firmly entrenched in lay discussion and public opinion as in the Marxian theory of surplus value, which, incidentally, professes to reject the iron law of wages. No past experience prevented Knapp from presenting his state theory of money,* and no later experience has forced his supporters to give up the theory.

 

The obstinacy of such unwillingness to learn from experience should stand as a warning to science. If a contradiction appears between a theory and experience, we always have to assume that a condition presupposed by the theory was not present, or else that there is some error in our observation. Since the essential prerequisite of action?dissatisfaction and the possibility of removing it partly or entirely?is always present, only the second possibility?an error in observation?remains open. However, in science one cannot be too cautious. If the facts do not confirm the theory, the cause perhaps may lie in the imperfection of the theory. The disagreement between the theory and the facts of experience consequently forces us to think through the problems of the theory again. But so long as a re-examination of the theory uncovers no errors in our thinking, we are not entitled to doubt its truth.

 

linky

[Peter_Puget]

Better watch out J_B or the truth might catch up and spoil your plot....

 

36 percent approve of the Democrats’ health-care plans and 61 percent disapprove. Just last month 46 percent approved and 49 percent did not. ( linky )

 

Here's a polll from that evil FOX!

 

Among Democrats, 63% favor the health care reform legislation, while a large majority (87%) of Republicans and two-thirds of independents (66%) oppose it.

 

 

You are wrongly assuming that everyone opposes current healtcare reform from the right whereas plenty of people oppose it because it is barely more than another hand out to the insurance industry through forcing the purchase of insurance and nothing to provide competiton to oligopolies. We won't even mention what it does to reproductive rights of women.

 

Earth to J_B! Please come in take off the foil hat! And remember your meds! I've been saying Obama is loosing the middle!!!!!

 

:[]

Edited December 10, 2009 by Peter_Puget

[j_b]

I know this is what you want people to think but it's false. Many people don't want this reform because it is another handout to the insurance sector and the pharma industry without providing a public option.

[j_b]

I almost hate to post this but J_B's last post reminded me of the quotation below: (My imitation of the other JayB)

 

Consequently, a proposition of an aprioristic theory [..]

 

Quoting the scriptures from the church of the free market again?

[j_b]

Among Democrats, 63% favor the health care reform legislation, while a large majority (87%) of Republicans and two-thirds of independents (66%) oppose it.

 

Earth to J_B! Please come in take off the foil hat! And remember your meds! I've been saying Obama is loosing the middle!!!!!

 

Since when are independents in the middle? did you take political science at the church of the free market or is there another reasonable explanation for your silly theories?

[ivan]

relevant words from another dead american hero

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pml8RqFpBE

[j_b]

Obama's Big Sellout

The president has packed his economic team with Wall Street insiders intent on turning the bailout into an all-out giveaway

 

MATT TAIBBI

 

Posted Dec 09, 2009 2:35 PM

 

Barack Obama ran for president as a man of the people, standing up to Wall Street as the global economy melted down in that fateful fall of 2008. He pushed a tax plan to soak the rich, ripped NAFTA for hurting the middle class and tore into John McCain for supporting a bankruptcy bill that sided with wealthy bankers "at the expense of hardworking Americans." Obama may not have run to the left of Samuel Gompers or Cesar Chavez, but it's not like you saw him on the campaign trail flanked by bankers from Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. What inspired supporters who pushed him to his historic win was the sense that a genuine outsider was finally breaking into an exclusive club, that walls were being torn down, that things were, for lack of a better or more specific term, changing.

 

Then he got elected.

 

What's taken place in the year since Obama won the presidency has turned out to be one of the most dramatic political about-faces in our history. Elected in the midst of a crushing economic crisis brought on by a decade of orgiastic deregulation and unchecked greed, Obama had a clear mandate to rein in Wall Street and remake the entire structure of the American economy. What he did instead was ship even his most marginally progressive campaign advisers off to various bureaucratic Siberias, while packing the key economic positions in his White House with the very people who caused the crisis in the first place. This new team of bubble-fattened ex-bankers and laissez-faire intellectuals then proceeded to sell us all out, instituting a massive, trickle-up bailout and systematically gutting regulatory reform from the inside.

 

How could Obama let this happen? Is he just a rookie in the political big leagues, hoodwinked by Beltway old-timers? Or is the vacillating, ineffectual servant of banking interests we've been seeing on TV this fall who Obama really is?

 

Whatever the president's real motives are, the extensive series of loophole-rich financial "reforms" that the Democrats are currently pushing may ultimately do more harm than good. In fact, some parts of the new reforms border on insanity, threatening to vastly amplify Wall Street's political power by institutionalizing the taxpayer's role as a welfare provider for the financial-services industry. At one point in the debate, Obama's top economic advisers demanded the power to award future bailouts without even going to Congress for approval — and without providing taxpayers a single dime in equity on the deals.

 

How did we get here? It started just moments after the election — and almost nobody noticed.

 

[..]

 

more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/31234647/obamas_big_sellout/print

[j_b]

In Polls, Much Opposition to Health Care Plan Is From Left

 

So PP, did you figure out the difference between 'independents' and 'middle'? In any case, you'd better straighten yourself out on that score before you treat us to another of your brilliant poll analysis.