The Fallacy of Periodization?

[rocky_joe]

However, the mechanisms of this adaptation, potentially involving collagen-inducing growth factors (such as transforming growth factor-β-1 (TGF-β-1)), as well as enzymes related to collagen processing, are not clear. Furthermore, possible differential effects of specific contraction types on collagen regulation have not been investigated.

 

again, no conclusions are drawn, specifically, about the actual gains in strength of the tendons. please learn to read.

[Kimmo]

Skeletal muscle adaptations and biomechanical properties of tendons in response to jump exercise in rabbits1

F. Gondret*,2, P. Hernandez, H. Rémignon and S. Combes

* Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique (INRA), Unité Mixte de Recherche (UMR) 1079 Systèmes d’Elevage Nutrition Animale et Humaine (SENAH), 35590 Saint Gilles, France; and Institute for Animal Science and Technology, Polytechnic University of Valencia, PO Box 22012, 46022 Valencia, Spain; and INRA, Université de Toulouse, UMR 1289, Tissus Animaux, Nutrition, Digestion, Ecosystème et Métabolisme (TANDEM), Chemin de Borde-Rouge, Auzeville, BP 52627, 31326 Castanet-Tolosan Cedex, France

 

2 Corresponding author: Florence.Gondret@rennes.inra.fr

 

 

Pen housing has been proposed in rabbits as an alternative to standard-sized cages. Rabbits reared in pens show greater physical activity. This study investigated whether jump exercise could modify body composition, muscle biochemical and histological characteristics, and some meat quality traits, including the biomechanical properties of tendons. Male weaned rabbits of similar BW (793 ± 11 g) were either reared in giant collective cages and had to jump over obstacles to get food and water for 35 consecutive days (EXE), or confined in small isolated cages (SEDN). Rabbits were weighed weekly to determine ADG (n = 79 EXE; n = 46 SEDN) and ADFI (n = 9 cages in EXE; n = 46 cages in SEDN). At approximately 10 wk of age, rabbits were slaughtered in 2 series. After overnight chilling, carcasses in the first series (n = 30 EXE; n = 27 SEDN) were divided into fore, intermediate, and hind parts. Color and ultimate pH were recorded in the biceps femoris (BF) and LM. The Achilles tendon and patellar ligament were dissected from the legs and cooked. Muscles [semimembranosus proprius, semimembranosus accessorius (SMA), and BF] were harvested from the legs in a subset of animals from the second series (n = 10 in EXE; n = 9 in SEDN). Both ADG and ADFI were slightly reduced (P < 0.10) in EXE rabbits compared with SEDN rabbits. Exercised rabbits showed a greater (P = 0.01) proportion of hind parts than SEDN rabbits. Enzyme activities of 3-hydroxyacyl-CoA dehydrogenase and citrate synthase, which play key roles in fatty acid oxidation and the terminal oxidative degradation of nutrients, respectively, were increased in the semimembranosus proprius, SMA (except citrate synthase), and BF muscles of EXE rabbits compared with SEDN rabbits. Only SMA exhibited a decreased (P = 0.05) activity of the glycolytic enzyme, lactate dehydrogenase, in EXE rabbits compared with SEDN animals. Total lipid content, mean diameter of perimysial adipocytes, and activities of core lipogenic enzymes in the SMA and BF muscles did not differ between EXE and SEDN rabbits. Meat color in BF was shifted toward greater a* (red; P = 0.001) and b* (yellow; P = 0.02) values in EXE rabbits compared with SEDN rabbits. Cooked Achilles tendon and patellar ligaments in the legs had greater stiffness (P 0.05) in EXE rabbits compared with SEDN rabbits. This experiment demonstrates that rabbit muscles turn to a more oxidative metabolic pattern in response to jump exercise. The quality of attachment of cooked meat to bone is also improved in active rabbits.

 

 

[rocky_joe]

will you please stop posting articles that in no way support what you are wanting to say?

[Kimmo]

Acute exercise induces collagen synthesis in both tendon and muscle, indicating an adaptive response in the connective tissue of the muscle–tendon unit.

 

 

 

 

[Kimmo]

will you please stop posting articles that in no way support what you are wanting to say?

 

it only makes sense that the body would take 4 years to begin adapting to stresses. bodies are so smart that way.

 

good night, rocky. sleep well.

[Water]

this debate has really tendon and on and on and on..

knuck knuck

 

so are you both convinced you can prove the other wrong and make them say uncle and that tendons (take a decade to get strong/regenerate overnight?). since neither of you will be successful using words, you should probably face off in a competitive wood whittling competition. winner gets to extract the loser's tendons and keep them as spares.

[rocky_joe]

this has ceased to be worth arguing. you are obviously not going to do anything but read into only that which supports your opinion. all the articles you posted go on to mention that there is no conclusive evidence from the study that tendon strength is increased. the studies you post are ambiguous at best and therefor easily manipulated to say what you want them to.

[Water]

was it ever worth arguing? anyone enacting serious lifestyle changing training advice from a single (or set) of internet forum posts has more problems than worrying about their tendons. the best way to learn is from experience -- if you blow a tendon perhaps you've learned you need to change something. And maybe you don't need to learn anything about tendon hyper-viscosity lipid mucus secreting vitrifying dynamics if your body feels fine with what you're doing.

[layton]

opinions are like assholes...

[Kimmo]

tendons (take a decade to get strong)

 

i think research will show that tendons never strengthen, becoming the first body tissue that does not respond to stimulus.

 

actually, you know i kid. everyone knows that tendons spend their time looking at the calendar, biding their time....just waiting for that magical moment when they, too, can be strong. (in 4 year's time.)

[Kimmo]

the best way to learn is from experience

 

you sir, are mad. one must follow proper training protocols, as spelled out in the proper training manuals. you seem to be on the verge of losing control or something.

[tomtom]

You guys are funny.

[Kimmo]

About you and your friends crushing as hard as you could all the time when you started...great.

 

shoot, you know what happened? our tendons didn't know they were supposed to wait 4 years, cuz your articles hadn't come out yet.

[G-spotter]

You think Adam Ondra is stronger now than Ben Moon was in his prime?

[rocky_joe]

yes.

[rocky_joe]

so, kimmo. tell me, please, why it is so ridiculous that tendons (which are non-vascular--IMPORTANT!) would take up to 4 years to respond and strengthen because of additional stress.

 

Also, saying that it takes them 4 years to respond to additional stress is not even close to the same as saying that theyare "looking at the calendar" waiting for year 4. What it really says is that it takes 4 years for the tendon to become significantly stronger; it is in fact growing, but tendon strength is not measured solely by their volume.

[G-spotter]

yes.

 

I seriously doubt it. Climbers have not gotten physically stronger over the last 20 years. If you look at stunts like doing one-arm nor one-finger pullups a guy like Gill or Bachar could probably pull off more than Ondra can now.

 

So the difference is down to improved technique and volume of training giving experience with different types of holds and moves. Strength has little to do with it.

 

[ryanb]

Kimmo,

 

I'm curious what your thoughts on volume/rest as one tries to experment with a more intense schedule are?

 

In particular how you determine how much rest and how much volume you can handle. I like the idea of high volume training but, In practice I find that I am pretty useless the day after a hangboarding work out (usually repeaters/encores for me) or intense bouldering session at the gym...like weak to the point that I can't really feel like I am getting a decent work out so I end up doing the one day on one day off thing.

 

Have you found that it is possible to adapt to multiple days on and do you have any advice for upping the volume in this way? Lots of lower intensity stuff (4x4's, traversing, running)? Vary the drills you do? Or just keep pushing through until your body adapts?

 

 

[hafilax]

my favorite thing ever that helped my gym climbing and was super fun to boot was static climbing. at first i picked problems that were relatively easy for me, and did them statically. completely statically. that means the only thing that would move when reaching for the next hold was the hand doing the reaching. and my reach would be controlled, always; meaning i could hold my body in that position in control while my hand reached. what's so fun and practical about this is that it teaches body awareness, core control and strength, optimal pre-move body positioning, mindfulness, lock off strength, toe hooks, heel hooks, , creativity, and is low injury risk. i think i started doing this on v1's and v2's an dthen moved up, and after a few months of two or three times a week for an hour or two at a time, was staticing v7's and maybe a v8 or two. it's so fun too! it was especially fun when stoned, although my speed went to silly sloth slow and people made fun of me....the control aspect was key though: i NEVER let myself cheat. if i couldn't do the move statically, i'd work just that move til i either got it, or moved to a different problem. for me personally, this period of "training" changed my climbing. the strength improvement and the awareness of movement were the biggest things. (but mainly it was fun!)

oh and i did these mainly on the steeper walls.

 

 

fingerboarding was a big factor in improvement at one point (and continues to be). my fingerboard was pretty simple: some plywood with 3/4", 1/2", and 1/4" edges. tons of good routines on line and in books, but i'd warm up well, maybe 10 or 15 minutes of slowly increasing intensity hangs, then start. i think at first i simply worked up to being able to hang the 3/4" for a minute and a half. maybe it took 2 weeks, maybe 3. i'd just start hanging til i fell off! rest a few minutes, repeat. 10 times. that'd be the workout. two or three times a week. semi crimp position. then moved to 1/2", started doing the same thing. can't remember the length of hang i worked to here. i think i had to crimp this, and the 1/4".

 

then started adding weight so i could only hang the 1/2 for 5 secs. do once, rest a couple minutes, repeat. 10 15 times. workout done. then assorted stuff on the 1/4". get creative. at first this'll kick your ass and more climbing on these days will be hard to do, but you get used to them. again, i got big improevements, but: mainly it was fun!

 

i think if you did the finger workout 2 or 3 times a week, and the static 3 times a week, you'd absolutely notice a big improvement in two or three months.

 

sample schedule:

 

Mon

 

static climbing, 1 hour in evening, ~15 to 20 climbs. fingerboarding after, 3/4" edge. 5 hangs to failure.

 

tues rest

 

wednesday same as monday

 

thursday rest

 

friday same as monday

 

rest weekend

 

2nd week, same as first, except hang to failure 10 times

 

i think this might be a good place to start, and see if you are recovering well and staying relatively fresh. maybe it's too much, or not nearly enough. if you can, start doing more climbing per session, and add a saturday hangboard session.

 

if anything hurts, rest it quickly before it becomes a problem. some aches are just part of the territory, but always better safe than sorry.

 

whew. ok i'd love to hear if you end up doing this stuff, and the progress you make. 3 weeks to start noticing improvements, 3 months to really notice big jumps. but mainly, i'd hope you have fun with these.

I was looking for a full winter's program or at least something that would span the time of a periodization program. What you've given IMO is a pretty standard mesocycle of the power phase of a periodization program. I'm trying to figure out which aspects of periodization you think are bullshit and I hoped that a concrete example would show what your alternative program is like.

 

You guys can spew all you want about tendons but if Kimmo's program is not that much different from those used by people training then it's all just mental masturbation. I know of lots of climbers that just kind of choose a weakness and work it for a while without strictly adhering to the all round improvement philosophy of periodization.

[boadman]

The main problem I see is with periodization is that the average weekend warrior would rather see slow steady progress over a long period of time than short peaks of maximum performance unless your psyched for a short trip or something. It's also way to anal for most climbers to pursue. The average climber might not reach their peak genetic potential without following some sort of periodized training schedule, but most of us could get quite a bit stronger simply by bouldering at the gym a couple of times a week.

 

Additionally, until you get up into the 13+ range, strength isn't really that big of a deal on most sport routes. Usually there's a power-endurance failure mode rather than a strength failure mode. Index could be an exception I guess, but I've rarely done moves on a rope that felt harder than V-3.

[John Frieh]

wash rinse repeat

 

 

your results may vary

[Rad]

You think Adam Ondra is stronger now than Ben Moon was in his prime?

 

A lot skinnier anyway.

[Rad]

I also strongly believe that just doing ANYTHING with some sort of plan and goal in mind will achieve the vast majority of results people want.

 

 

(You can't always get what you want) x 3

But if you try sometimes you might find

You get what you need

 

[Kimmo]

You think Adam Ondra is stronger now than Ben Moon was in his prime?

 

depends on what you mean by stronger. i have no doubt that moon was and perhaps is stronger on certain types of moves. i seriously doubt ondra could campus 1 5 9 for example. he's a skinny kid who complains about being weak.

[Kimmo]

I was looking for a full winter's program or at least something that would span the time of a periodization program. What you've given IMO is a pretty standard mesocycle of the power phase of a periodization program. I'm trying to figure out which aspects of periodization you think are bullshit and I hoped that a concrete example would show what your alternative program is like.

 

You guys can spew all you want about tendons but if Kimmo's program is not that much different from those used by people training then it's all just mental masturbation. I know of lots of climbers that just kind of choose a weakness and work it for a while without strictly adhering to the all round improvement philosophy of periodization.

 

dude, you asked from me for a sample routine that might get you, as a v4 climber, stronger. you can call this a mesocycle in a periodization program if you like, but i call it preparation to climb harder. btw, there is actually NO power work there, just strength, since most moves are done statically. there is no doubt that, beyond the fun i had climbing statically, this time of climbing helps my climbing to this day, so that's why i would recommend it to someone climbing at your level. are there other things you could do that would improve you? you betcha. almost anything that makes some sense and is done religiously and wisely for a solid chunk of time (at least two months) will improve you. mine was a small small slice from all the options, given because you asked. if it doesn't make sense, or you really don't like it, then don't do it, but if you want to improve, do SOMETHING. (but always work on finger strength, cuz that's the body/rock interface).

 

in the end, of course aspects of "periodization" make sense, in certain situations. i'm just not a fan of adopting one religion and declaring it the end-all. that's just dumb, numb, blind idolatry!

 

and my "program" for myself? power, strength, and stamina. with focus on what i'll be needing for a particular project.