PNW Screws

[LeTiger]

Hey Folks,

 

I found a pretty good deal on BD express Ice screws, and was wondering what/how many you folks use for Hood (or eventually Rainier) on the moderate routes *(Cooper Spur?).

 

I was planning on getting 1x22 (Vthread rap)and 1x16, does this sound adequate to you folks?

 

I have not yet been up on Hood during the wintertime yet, but plan on being up there every weekend the weather and avalanche conditions are safe.

 

Thanks in advance, and Cheers!

 

- Guthrie

[DPS]

If I take screws on Hood or Rainier it is because I am doing a technical route like the North Face or Liberty Ridge so I take 6 screws. For easier routes I generally don't take any screws.

[ivan]

If I take screws on Hood or Rainier it is because I am doing a technical route like the North Face or Liberty Ridge so I take 6 screws. For easier routes I generally don't take any screws.

word.

 

 

oh, and "screws working on hood?" ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!

 

don't fall

 

seriously

[billcoe]

I've probably been up Cooper Spur 15 or so times and never took screws like every one is saying, BUT, if I was planning on doing laps like you are all winter, I'd have at least 2 for those conditions where they'd be needed. Like Jan and Feb after an ice storm. The times that there is some verglass or ice they would be more than nice to have them. Besides that, you'll soon want to do the harder routes to the right over on the North Face anyway, and if you're a gear whore like me, getting a good deal is reason enough just buy a bunch anyway. If the conditions are just snow, I'd leave them at home, since it's winter you'll already have an insane load of crap and probably skiing far in deep snow. I like climbing it with a longer ice axe so I can get it down in the snow deeply when the snow is all fluffy like. You're wading through thigh deep fluffy snow, a little as is only of value to pick your nose or your ass. A long one will give you some leverage to get your ass up and out of deep snow, which you''ll be seeing a lot of.

 

Since you sound like you'll be out all the time, watch for avalanches and stay to the left as much as possible, don't worry about getting to the summit, but focus on being in the now and the process. Taking a bag and sleeping overnight and in till light at tie in rock isn't a bad thing to do either if you think it's marginal. You'll wake up in a clear cold day, you can still scoot up, down and out and be in the car with plenty of time to spare - you'll have the Mt all to yourself most times. The other great spot to hang if you think upper conditions are teh suck to climb but you want a nice winter ski with a possible summit if it looks good later is the top of Barrett spur. Great place to hang. Take a camera!

 

Have fun Guthrie!

[ScaredSilly]

On mountain routes it is nice to have medium and maybe one longer screws for the belay (using your tool(s) for the rest of the anchor). For glacier/crevasse travel we typically take per one person. I think the most screws I have ever taken for a big route (ie. Cassin Ridge) was 5-6 screws for stuff like Rainier's Norward routes it is more like at most 3-4 screws, for Coopers I did not even take a partner but if climbing roped 3-4 screws would be sufficient.

[LeTiger]

Sweet!

 

Thanks for the feedback everybody, it's been super helpful!

 

I will definitely be taking my time up there, and getting my hardskills with self arrest with axe and poles down pat before attempting to get even close to the "Summit" (luckily for me, I've read too many books about summit fever to ever make that one of my primary goals, I'm mainly concerned with getting up there, and freezing my ass off to enjoy some excellent sunrises, and try some fun routes.)

 

I already have some experience with ice climbing from doing it a bit this summer up on some AK glaciers, just never had my own gear, so was wondering if any was actually needed for hood.

 

Looks like I'll be going with 6 screws, 1x22, and 5x16cm. (or maybe 13cm?)

 

Again, thanks for the feedback!

 

- Guthrie

Edited October 6, 2009 by LeTiger

[sweatinoutliquor]

6 screws: 1x22, 2x13, 3x10???? I like stubbies for mountaineering... When I use screws on the volcanos I often find myself placing them in thin but solid ice over rock. Just my opinion. You can always tie off longer screws I guess.

[JoeR]

You can always tie off longer screws I guess.

 

Bad idea, according to manufacturers and ENSA(French Guide School in Chamonix)

 

Quote from Mark Twight's book Extreme Alpinism

 

"..tie offs may flatten the screw tube under massive impact, causing stress risers to propagate along it. The stress travels to where the exterior threads of a screw reinforce the tube, and the screw usually snaps there. The same problem is true of a long screw placed to the eye but connected to the rope with a tie-off instead of clipped through the hanger. Screws have broken at the threads, deep inside the ice, due to stress risers. So never tie off a screw except in dire straits.

[LeTiger]

Thanks for the report, definitely good to have some perspective on that.

 

I went ahead with what sweatinoutliquor suggested, so no worries though

 

cheers,

 

- Guthrie

[Major Major]

Guthrie,

 

One small question, and don't take offense, but have you climbed the south side of Hood in the winter yet? It might be a good idea getting a feel for the mountain in general on the easy side during the winter before attempting the n side. As Billcoe notes, you'll be spending more time slogging through waist high snow than placing ice screw protection. I definitely recommend investing in your -20 bag and bivy as a plan b to ice screwing your way up cooper. It's just a suggestion, because when that wind hits 50 mph and the temp drops like a rock, well, you know. Anyway, I'm probably drunk already, so it's time to throw in the towel. Hood is funny. It changes directions on you.

[LeTiger]

No offense taken, and concern definitely appreciated,

 

I won't be getting up on cooper or any of the harder routes for a good time. Mainly focusing on getting up on the main route for now. I just asked here about screw suggestions because I had a chance to pick some up at a good price, and wanted a future proof ice rack for when I was ready to tackle such routes that need those kind of pieces.

 

If at all, nothing works out then I plan on using them for glacier ice up at where I will be working this summer in AK (hence the single 22 for setting v-threads)

 

Was up at hood this weekend on Saturday night, and just went up for training to the top of the ski-run (Timberline), and then back down to Bivy in the parking lot (Didn't feel like getting scooped up by snow-cat's on the hill) Definitely going to be playing it safe and smart until I am ready to do the harder routes.

 

Cheers,

 

- Guthrie

[Farrgo]

If you are going to carry screws only for making v-threads just get yourself a titanium screw. They are usually ~17cm light and cheap.

[Mr Macchiato]

Sweet!

 

Thanks for the feedback everybody, it's been super helpful!

 

I will definitely be taking my time up there, and getting my hardskills with self arrest with axe and poles down pat before attempting to get even close to the "Summit" (luckily for me, I've read too many books about summit fever to ever make that one of my primary goals, I'm mainly concerned with getting up there, and freezing my ass off to enjoy some excellent sunrises, and try some fun routes.)

 

I already have some experience with ice climbing from doing it a bit this summer up on some AK glaciers, just never had my own gear, so was wondering if any was actually needed for hood.

 

Looks like I'll be going with 6 screws, 1x22, and 5x16cm. (or maybe 13cm?)

 

Again, thanks for the feedback!

 

- Guthrie

 

Hey no offense but I always cringe when I hear about people practising self arrest. Its really is not something to rely on and most times wont stop you from sliding if the surface is steep and icy. I see folks in the canynon testing their skills on warm, wet 25 degree slopes but never on the slopes that really matter ie cold, dark, icy 45 degrees with a backpack on...oh and by surprise as well. Focus on climbing well not self arresting well.

[LeTiger]

Hey no offense but I always cringe when I hear about people practising self arrest. Its really is not something to rely on and most times wont stop you from sliding if the surface is steep and icy. I see folks in the canynon testing their skills on warm, wet 25 degree slopes but never on the slopes that really matter ie cold, dark, icy 45 degrees with a backpack on...oh and by surprise as well. Focus on climbing well not self arresting well.

 

Gosh, people must think I am easily offendable! -(No Such Case )

 

I actually plan on doing well at both, but yes I get your point. Not falling is ideal. However, show me one person who would seriously jump up wanting to go on the mountain with someone who readily admitted to "not knowing/practicing self arrest" because they "climb well enough to not need to practice" - Seems like pretty slim pickin's to me...

 

- G

[Plaidman]

Sweet!

 

Thanks for the feedback everybody, it's been super helpful!

 

I will definitely be taking my time up there, and getting my hardskills with self arrest with axe and poles down pat before attempting to get even close to the "Summit" (luckily for me, I've read too many books about summit fever to ever make that one of my primary goals, I'm mainly concerned with getting up there, and freezing my ass off to enjoy some excellent sunrises, and try some fun routes.)

 

I already have some experience with ice climbing from doing it a bit this summer up on some AK glaciers, just never had my own gear, so was wondering if any was actually needed for hood.

 

Looks like I'll be going with 6 screws, 1x22, and 5x16cm. (or maybe 13cm?)

 

Again, thanks for the feedback!

 

- Guthrie

 

Hey no offense but I always cringe when I hear about people practising self arrest. Its really is not something to rely on and most times wont stop you from sliding if the surface is steep and icy. I see folks in the canynon testing their skills on warm, wet 25 degree slopes but never on the slopes that really matter ie cold, dark, icy 45 degrees with a backpack on...oh and by surprise as well. Focus on climbing well not self arresting well.

 

Good advice. Since it is called climbing. Not falling is a good idea.

[luvshaker]

Practice self arrest. Not practicing is about as foolish as a base jumper not practicing pulling his cord. Self arrest does work on steep/icy conditions but only if you do it mass rapido. You will only do it fast if your practice it. Also, most of the times I have used it is when I'm in wet snow when the crampons ball up and footing gives out, so it pays to practice in those conditions too....the steeper the better.

 

And if you are the most experienced one on a rope team, all the more reason to be good at self arrest.

 

Not falling is nice fuzzy thought, I hope that gives you great comfort.

 

Lee

Edited December 2, 2009 by luvshaker

[billcoe]

I've probably been up Cooper Spur 15 or so times and never took screws like every one is saying, BUT, if I was planning on doing laps like you are all winter, I'd have at least 2 for those conditions where they'd be needed. Like Jan and Feb after an ice storm. The times that there is some verglass or ice they would be more than nice to have them. Besides that, you'll soon want to do the harder routes to the right over on the North Face anyway, and if you're a gear whore like me, getting a good deal is reason enough just buy a bunch anyway. If the conditions are just snow, I'd leave them at home, since it's winter you'll already have an insane load of crap and probably skiing far in deep snow. I like climbing it with a longer ice axe so I can get it down in the snow deeply when the snow is all fluffy like. You're wading through thigh deep fluffy snow, a little as is only of value to pick your nose or your ass. A long one will give you some leverage to get your ass up and out of deep snow, which you''ll be seeing a lot of.

 

Since you sound like you'll be out all the time, watch for avalanches and stay to the left as much as possible, don't worry about getting to the summit, but focus on being in the now and the process. Taking a bag and sleeping overnight and in till light at tie in rock isn't a bad thing to do either if you think it's marginal. You'll wake up in a clear cold day, you can still scoot up, down and out and be in the car with plenty of time to spare - you'll have the Mt all to yourself most times. The other great spot to hang if you think upper conditions are teh suck to climb but you want a nice winter ski with a possible summit if it looks good later is the top of Barrett spur. Great place to hang. Take a camera!

 

Have fun Guthrie!

 

Who writes this unintellectual shit? I got prepositions where my Nouns should be and verbs magically appear....I "think" that I meant to say, "take a bivi bag and good sleeping bag and sleep over or overnight at Tie In Rock", another sentence might have read "waking up at first light" and the other one might have meant to say, "having a short axe is only of value to pick your ass or nose in deep snow, take a long one for non technical winter ascents: you'll appreciate being able to slam it deep into soft snow on the way up and also the dual function to use it like a blind mans cane coming down in a white out" not whatever the hell I was garbling on about up there.

Guthrie, hey, where's these pictures of steep snow and gorgeous blue sky anyway? Been some decent weather here and there.

 

ps, like Luvshaker says, learn everything you can and practice practice practice it in advance is a great idea, but keep your picks in and don't plan on being able to self arrest on even a moderate angle ice slope.

[LeTiger]

Guthrie, hey, where's these pictures of steep snow and gorgeous blue sky anyway? Been some decent weather here and there.

 

Finals Man... I tell ya....

 

Been REALLY painful not to be able to head up this weekend, and last, however the punches have been rolling, and the grades come before the mountain.

 

Will most definitely be up and on it starting Late December, as I will be in Southern Oregon getting a WFR certification from the 12th through the 20th. (hopefully a good confidence booster as well)

 

The pics will come, oh yes, the pics will come.

 

Very excited to make my first TR, just gotta wait for school to settle down a bit before.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone, again, I am always interested in hearing people's views, and it is always appreciated.

 

- G

Edited December 6, 2009 by LeTiger

[billcoe]

Well good luck with that....probably too painful for you to see this then but I saw the pics and it looks like the money pitch up high is in Phat as of a couple of days ago!

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/924896/TR_Mt_Hood_Wy_East_12_2_2009#Post924896

 

I always though that the crux of this thing was not killing yourself on the crevasses below, and at this time they look as perfect (cause they aren't all covered in snow) as they get with the Mt still being climbable (ie, NOT July/August)