FOUND Quickdraw on the P1 anchor of Young Warriors

[kevbone]

If I climbed it this fall and the anchor was somehow moved down 10 feet....I would not cause a stink.

[geoff]

Are yall taking about the two bolt anchor directly above P1? If so, this anchor isn't really part of the climb, is it? I suppose it is good for rapping or climbing P1 only but if your going up, why not use the anchor more in line with P2?

 

If your level is P1 only then the added excitement of having to down climb 5 ft. is worth not moving the bolts. Of course, they can be removed altogether if you ask me.

[kevbone]

I personaly would like to see the bolts on pitch 2 be removed. Useless they are.....

[geoff]

I use em both. The first one to calm my belayer into believing they are safe if I whip off that thing and the second to rest on before commencing the BH approach.

[JosephH]

I personaly would like to see the bolts on pitch 2 be removed. Useless they are.....

We're in violent agreement here.

[pink]

I personaly would like to see the bolts on pitch 2 be removed. Useless they are.....

We're in violent agreement here.

 

 

[kevbone]

I personaly would like to see the bolts on pitch 2 be removed. Useless they are.....

We're in violent agreement here.

 

There are 5 bolts in 110 of climbing on the first pitch. Hardly over bolted IMO....the second has two bolts.....both are not needed IMO. The 3rd pitch has no bolts, but does have two pins. Personaly...I like the pins. There is really no good gear there and that is the crux of that pitch. The fourth pitch has 3 bolts and three pins in about 140 of climbing. Not over bolted IMO. The fifth pitch has one bolt and one pin.

 

Awesome route.

[JosephH]

p1 - I do it solely on pro all the time; no bolts are needed; the first pin is not so great - it might hold a fall; the second pin is only there because they didn't have funk when they put in the bolt which wasn't necessary.

 

p2 - No bolts needed; the belay angle is way bomb.

 

p3 - The pins are bomb; I have no particular problem with them and only clip the top one, but there is gear at the same level to the left and it would be a pretty ugly fall with or without the pins.

 

p4 - First bolt isn't necessary; the first pin might hold a fall, but isn't necessary at all; I never clip the second pin, but would if the crux bolt weren't there which I think should be the case given there is a good pin below it and a good pin instantly above it (it's a single move boulder problem with fixed pro before it, on it, and after it all in the span of about 10-12').

 

p5 - Is pretty innocuous, I have no particular problem with it.

 

[King Beatard]

1.Jim put up the climb

2.He is EXTREMELY passionate about it being the way it is.

3.He put a lot of thought into things being the way they are.

4.Our agreement with those reasons is inconsequential.

5.Accept that you have no right to fuck with Jim's climb.

6.If you must tinker with something, go put up your own classic.

 

[King Beatard]

They'll upgrade you to journeyman after you can do a 5.10 first ascent naked in the winter....wait.....you did that last year already. Hey, back to N00b status anyway for the interruption N00b, didn't you see that we're argueing bolts now....sheeese! LOL

 

Hey bill, don't forget that was on gear with a bowline on a coil.

[billcoe]

...don't forget that was on gear with a bowline on a coil.

 

I forget a lot of things but I suspect this was unforgettable! Stylin with just an old school bowline on a coil and not much else LINK.

 

PS, YOUR 6 POINTS UP THERE ARE SPOT ON THE MONEY!

[JosephH]

Adam, we know Jim put up the climb and is passionate about it. And while he may have put a lot of thought into things being the way they are, some of us clearly have a different perspective on many of the decisions that were made, and in my case at least, those differing opinions are rooted in a deep familarity and strong connection with the line. YW is what it is, and I don't intend to 'fuck with' it beyond replacing bad bolts, but the idea that every decision that was made was 'perfect' is a bit over the top. Such differing opinions and perspectives may be inconsequential to the very necessary status quo of the route, but they are every bit as valid as the ones made when it was put up. Also, any notion that the current bolts are 'fine' or somehow good into perpetuity - particularly the mixed metals ones - well, the state of the original p1 & p2 anchor bolts and just looking at the rest of them tells a very different story, and recent events at Index should serve as a cautionary tale for any route as heavily trafficked as YW.

[pink]

1.Jim put up the climb

2.He is EXTREMELY passionate about it being the way it is.

3.He put a lot of thought into things being the way they are.

4.Our agreement with those reasons is inconsequential.

5.Accept that you have no right to fuck with Jim's climb.

6.If you must tinker with something, go put up your own classic.

 

yup

[LostCamKenny]

1.Jim put up the climb

2.He is EXTREMELY passionate about it being the way it is.

3.He put a lot of thought into things being the way they are.

4.Our agreement with those reasons is inconsequential.

5.Accept that you have no right to fuck with Jim's climb.

6.If you must tinker with something, go put up your own classic.

 

Spoken like a true young warrior...

[billcoe]

 

Castle Rock, Washington

[kevbone]

Look, there is the land of the little people.

[geoff]

Jim told me you all are a bunch of wankers and his climb should not be discussed via electronic gadgets.

[JosephH]

That's only because there is no betamax video tape version of YW.

[King Beatard]

Adam, we know Jim put up the climb and is passionate about it. And while he may have put a lot of thought into things being the way they are, some of us clearly have a different perspective on many of the decisions that were made, and in my case at least, those differing opinions are rooted in a deep familarity and strong connection with the line. YW is what it is, and I don't intend to 'fuck with' it beyond replacing bad bolts, but the idea that every decision that was made was 'perfect' is a bit over the top. Such differing opinions and perspectives may be inconsequential to the very necessary status quo of the route, but they are every bit as valid as the ones made when it was put up. Also, any notion that the current bolts are 'fine' or somehow good into perpetuity - particularly the mixed metals ones - well, the state of the original p1 & p2 anchor bolts and just looking at the rest of them tells a very different story, and recent events at Index should serve as a cautionary tale for any route as heavily trafficked as YW.

 

#7 All those bolts were put in by hand, as ALL bolts on the South side are supposed to be.

 

In response to you misquoting me as saying the route is "perfect" - I SPECIFICALLY DID NOT SAY THAT. The route isn't supposed to be perfect, because in the real world, things aren't. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make them so. Grow from the way things are and you will become a safer more aware climber. Go to Yosemite and the imperfections found on Beacon might just save your life. (Reference Bill Coe)

I think Jim feels comfortable with less than perfection and sees the good in this as outweighing the bad as this is an opportunity to teach and expand folks worldview as it relates to climbing, ie, that things are less than perfect and you need to keep your head up and pay attention: while JH is seeing it as easy to fix and make it to near perfect and it is less than marginally suitable in it's present condition.

 

They probably are both right, but I give Jim the slight nod on it, if someone raps off the end of their rope and their butt slams down 10 feet to the ground, they will have learned a valuable lesson cheaply about paying attention and tying knots in the ends of ropes. One they can transfer to a 1000' high cliff and have a better chance of surviving that.

 

And finally, No you're perspective isn't "special" because you have the route wired - we all have it wired. The notion that you or I or any one of us gets to change the route to make it more to our liking is just wrong. If you want to change anything, you should out of respect and appreciation for Jim, do so ONLY with his blessing. I'm glad as Jim will be to hear you "don't intend to fuck with it"(Refer to Point #6)

[JosephH]

#7 All those bolts were put in by hand, as ALL bolts on the South side are supposed to be.

Whether put in by hand or with a drill, if bolts aren't installed perpendicular to the rock or with similar metals, the result will always less than desirable. The reality is the anchors replaced on YW p1 and p2 were in the worst shape of all the 66 anchors sets replaced. And your latter statement is not true, in the last CMP a deliberate effort was mounted to allow power drilling and that effort succeeded. So your statement "as ALL bolts on the South side are supposed to be..." is sadly not the case at all and that's just one of many reasons why being involved when the BRSP revises the CMP is so important.

 

In response to you misquoting me as saying the route is "perfect" - I SPECIFICALLY DID NOT SAY THAT.

I wasn't quoting you, I was quoting Jim.

 

And finally, No you're perspective isn't "special" because you have the route wired

You're doing the misquoting here; I said my opinions and perspectives are rooted in a my understanding of, and affinity for, the route - not that they're special in any way.

 

I'm glad as Jim will be to hear...

During every discussion of YW - here on cc, at Beacon, and many with Jim at his place - I've explicitly said I don't intend to change anything on my own. What I have done, is attempt to make a case for moving an anchor that is as useless as tits on a boar since we trundled several tons of rock at the top of p1. Beyond that I've only responded to Kevin's numerous requests for a bolt immediately below the butthole which I disagree with and also stated I consider the route, and particularly p1, to be overbolted and stand by that statement. None of this is news to Jim, but feel free to repeat any of the above at your next audience.

[justinp]

1.Jim put up the climb

6.If you must tinker with something, go put up your own classic.

 

I fear change

 

 

 

 

[JosephH]

I fear change

YW has already substantially and steadily changed over the years as loosening rock has been trundled and will continue to do so. Change happens.

 

 

And the 'before' photo here on the left is itself an 'after' photo due to the late night launch, just a few months earlier, of the large stone that was in front of those. The ones you see here that were trundled are what now make up the foundation of the new base of the climb. It's a new base because that bottom-most rock in the 'before' picture filled the dihedral for about twelve feet and, when dropped, sliced through the old base on it's way cartwheeling over the trail and down the hill.

[lancegranite]

You guys know that www.beaconrock.org is available?

It's not too late to start a new website so you guys can go argue for 39 pages about a bolt.

No other single area in Washington that gets hosed down with stupid spray.

The rest of the state just wants to push that pile into the Columbia river, is it possible to sell it to Oregon?

Imagine... your very own website!

 

[olyclimber]

[denalidave]

You guys know that www.beaconrock.org is available?

It's not too late to start a new website so you guys can go argue for 39 pages about a bolt.

No other single area in Washington that gets hosed down with stupid spray.

The rest of the state just wants to push that pile into the Columbia river, is it possible to sell it to Oregon?

Imagine... your very own website!

"They" tried blasting the big B into oblivion many years ago and all that resulted was some new overhanging routes and a few caves that LCK and Jim now reside in.