shaoleung Posted June 7, 2009 Posted June 7, 2009 It's probably a lost cause because I still wear my helmet on most leads. I'm guessing that's why you haven't seen pics of me on the cover of Climbing Magazine yet... Dude! Why is it that climbers seem to be the last ones to figure out that helmets are cool and helmet-less climbing is for dumb-asses? Biking, kayaking, skateboarding, football... they've all figured it out. If you don't cover your bean, your chances for death are significantly higher. There are so many light-weight helmets out there. You can still lather your tanned Adonis frame in olive oil, but get over your fear of helmet hair and protect your brain! I don't want to have to rescue your sorry ass when you get knocked unconscious in the name of looking good. ... oh... and I'd stick with 10mm+. 10.2 for me... cheapest one out there. Quote
catbirdseat Posted June 7, 2009 Posted June 7, 2009 I recall another spooky experience, when I was lowering a sturdy Norwegian girl off a Leavenworth climb. I noticed a pink "cloud" developing where the rope ran over an edge. The rope, less than one year old and with no falls, was immediately retired when large sections of its core were visible after the top-roping the girl. I let a couple friends use my brand new PMI 9.9 mm on Stick to What at Echo Rock. After one or two lowers, the the cover was noticeably fuzzy in a couple places. I'll never loan a rope again. I never lower anybody at Joshua Tree. Too dang hard on the rope. Just have the second follow and you both walk off. Quote
TimL Posted June 7, 2009 Posted June 7, 2009 Climbed a lot at Index on both the upper and lower wall...most of it on 165s and never felt like I needed anything longer. Actually it's really, really nice to have a 70m at Index. In terms of thin ropes and saving weight, I call bullshit on the entire thin rope deal. Sure they are nice. If you want to be a gear head, buy a thin rope and know why you bought it. If you wanna pretend that it's gonna help you redpoint or onsight, well go ahead and trick yourself. I've never heard anyone say, "well.....I blew the onsight cause my rope was to heavy". You fall cause your too fat, or have bad technique, or botch the sequence or you need to train harder or any number of other perfectly logical reasons. Mine this week is because I'm injured, which is painfully true. Gear doesn't make up for motivation. Although it is fun to buy. I made a 10.5/11mm x 70m mistake last summer. But that hasn't stopped me from putting down some of my hardest redpoints and onsights last fall and spring. Quote
el jefe Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 It's probably a lost cause because I still wear my helmet on most leads. I'm guessing that's why you haven't seen pics of me on the cover of Climbing Magazine yet... Dude! Why is it that climbers seem to be the last ones to figure out that helmets are cool and helmet-less climbing is for dumb-asses? Biking, kayaking, skateboarding, football... they've all figured it out. If you don't cover your bean, your chances for death are significantly higher. There are so many light-weight helmets out there. You can still lather your tanned Adonis frame in olive oil, but get over your fear of helmet hair and protect your brain! I don't want to have to rescue your sorry ass when you get knocked unconscious in the name of looking good. ... oh... and I'd stick with 10mm+. 10.2 for me... cheapest one out there. shaoleung is on a crusade re: helmets these days... Quote
Edlinger Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Gotta have a 70m for many rock climbing sport areas these days. As a sidenote, if you frequently pass parties on multipitch routes, the 70m is really nice! Has anyone ever seen a rope break or get cut in a fall ever? -Not me. I've cut an 9.8m and an 11m with an ice axe in mountain emergencies. The 11m only withstood two more blows. John Harlin was jugging an 8mm cord that had been hanging in the elements for a while. Helmets at the sport crags are only for newbies and vetrans climbing easy routes- (5.11a and under). If you are climbing at a higher level, the routes are steeper, plus you fall all the time and know how to fall. Quote
JosephH Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Anyone ever see a rope break or get cut in a fall ever? -Not me. Do you know anyone who's died climbing? Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Sub-10 ropes cut much easier under tension than a 10 0r 10+ rope. Don't kid yourself - the 'not me' covers a lot of f#ckups that happen all the time in climbing. Quote
genepires Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 you asked if anyone ever knew of someone who cut a rope while falling. Man was rope soloing prodigal son in zion. Fell and his lead line was in behind a flake and cut when he fell. He was up something like 5 pitches. Of course he didn't make it. I don't know what kind of rope he had. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 It's probably a lost cause because I still wear my helmet on most leads. I'm guessing that's why you haven't seen pics of me on the cover of Climbing Magazine yet... Dude! Why is it that climbers seem to be the last ones to figure out that helmets are cool and helmet-less climbing is for dumb-asses? Biking, kayaking, skateboarding, football... they've all figured it out. If you don't cover your bean, your chances for death are significantly higher. There are so many light-weight helmets out there. You can still lather your tanned Adonis frame in olive oil, but get over your fear of helmet hair and protect your brain! I don't want to have to rescue your sorry ass when you get knocked unconscious in the name of looking good. ... oh... and I'd stick with 10mm+. 10.2 for me... cheapest one out there. 10.2 all the way! I've led on a 9.7 before that BillCoe sold to Kyle, only to find out after the climb from Kyle that 2 other IDENTICAL ropes went coreshot. This is completely unrelated to the current debate about >10mm or <10mm, but I have since sworn off ANY rope less than 10mm - unless I'm using twins then I have 8.1's - simply because the diameter scares the shit out of me. Silly, I know, but I still like thicker ropes. Light weight... meh. A climber ought to be able to carry ALL his gear - no matter the weight! As for the helmet talk, I'd rather look stupid at a single-pitch crag wearing my helmet then look dead because I wasn't wearing it. I don't care how long the climb is - helmet is the first thing to go on when I reach the base! Quote
LostCamKenny Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Do you know anyone who's died climbing? Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Sub-10 ropes cut much easier under tension than a 10 0r 10+ rope. Don't kid yourself - the 'not me' covers a lot of f#ckups that happen all the time in climbing. Quote
Dane Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Question? What routes are you doing that need a 70m rope at Index? Obviously stuff I have never been on. Cut ropes? Although no fan of really thin ropes for most climbs last I checked hadn't seen any documentation of anyone injured or killed from a rope being cut. Gene posted one. More? If so a link? Quote
Alpinfox Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Question? What routes are you doing that need a 70m rope at Index? A 70m rope is required for rapping off and/or toproping many routes at the LTW and UTW if you want to do it with a single rope. If you want to haul up a second 50/60m rope, that works of course, but I prefer to just bring one rope. Need 70m to rap: Princely Ambitions, Golden Road Need 70m to TR: Godzilla (if rope is running through the gear) I'm sure there are many other examples, but that otter get you started. edit: Blake corrected me. I meant to say 70m required for rap from Heaven's Gate, not Golden Road. Edited June 9, 2009 by Alpinfox Quote
Dane Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Thanks, not so much on the top ropes, but all things I have done with a 50m rope or two... I see the "need" if you want to use one rope and/or TR. Which really means "everything" at Index can be done with a 150' rope or two easily. Quote
Blake Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Question? What routes are you doing that need a 70m rope at Index? Obviously stuff I have never been on. Tatoosh P1 Iron Horse Sagg (Full) Thin Fingers TR Princely Ambitions TR Japanese Gardens Heaven's GateLeave My Face Alone Kite Flying Blind Hairway to Stephen Cunning Stunt (with the short extension) Raps off DH-LA Not to mention hundreds of newer lines in places like indian creek, or most modern sport crags. One 70m also allows rappel descents from many peaks and towers than would otherwise require two ropes. Quote
Dane Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Done the DH/LA, PA and TF many time and never used a 70m rope. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Carrying two ropes is way awesome. Oh yeah!!! Quote
Dane Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 For the genius among us. A 210 feet of rope can be measured many ways but is still only 210 feet. Things that can be top roped with a single 210 foot rope can be lead with a 105 foot rope. So the majority of the time leading on a 70m rope at Index you'll have 60 feet of it sitting at the belay never to be used. I can imagine there are lines at Index where you can/might bypass a perfectly good belay ledge like combining the two pitches of Thin Fingers. Might even be a line or two set up specifically for 70m ropes. But they aren't the norm. So please don't tell me you need a 70m rope at Index Quote
Alpinfox Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Yes, convenience and simplicity are WAY overrated. Keep on rockin' with that pair of 50m ropes! Quote
Alpinfox Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) If you don't use a 70m rope at Index, you will definitely die. It is an absolute necessity. Just like someone apparently said earlier in this thread. edit: For some reason I can't find the place where someone said you absolutely need a 70m rope at Index. Maybe you can find it for me Dane? Edited June 9, 2009 by Alpinfox Quote
el jefe Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 just think, dane, all these years climbing at index you've been getting it wrong. now get a 70m rope before disaster strikes! Quote
Peter_Puget Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Better yet please post TR from the 150' days! Of course one from the 120'days would be even better. Quote
olyclimber Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 If you don't mind leaving gear and rapping the route, most routes would probably allow you to climb with a 15m rope. Quote
Dane Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Ok....my rope is too short, too old and too fat, at least now I know why I'll die soon That was kinda pretty scary, glad I'm still almost 6'1". Funny thing about those "150' days". We seemingly carried less gear, used the same belay stances and had at least as much fun as the guys climbing today on a 70m rope. I just hate actually having to coil or carry a 70m rope Quote
counterfeitfake Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Raps off DH-LA Why has nobody just put in another anchor on that wall? I don't think extra bolts are always the answer, but on a route this popular, when two more bolts would mean nobody has to trail an extra rope, it seems like it might be justified. Quote
Rad Posted June 10, 2009 Author Posted June 10, 2009 This thread is getting thin on content. Last year we went up Leave My Face Alone at Index and upon rapping down with our 60m rope we got stuck above the Zoom anchor and had to play rope games to get down. 70m would have been nice. On the flip side I remember going and climbing Braile Book on a 60m rope and getting all messed up because we wanted to run the full rope length and ended up at awkward belay points because the pitches were geared for a 50m rope or shorter. I'm glad y'all had such a golden time in the golden age with your goldline. Hope you are enjoying your golden years. I'm not ready to go there yet myself. Quote
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