johndavidjr Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 (edited) I've been banned from two backpacking forums for suggesting that a $20 tent http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8136423 Is something like these tents for ten times the price... http://www.tarptent.com/products.html If you ditch the Wenzel fiberglass poles, the thing weighs slightly more than two pounds by my personal estimate..........gotta apply seam selant.. Edited December 29, 2008 by johndavidjr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 The banning couldn't have anything to do with your bubbly personality. Must have been the influence of commercial intersts, or the military industrial complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonG Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Well, as the backpacking forums have probably pointed out, the walmart cheapo doesn't have a rainfly (nor will it stand up to heavy use). Why don't you just bring some bug juice and sleep out under the stars? Now that's cheap. As far as light shelter goes, the Black Diamond Betalight is probably the best thing going . . . JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 you get what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Wenzel's $19.99 tent and Black Diamond Mid both use 1.9 ounce polyester fabric -- essentially a commodity. Wenzel has 10-year warranty. BD a one-year warranty. The HS Tarptents, a 90-day warranty for nearly $300. None have rainflys. They are waterproof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Made in Seattle, USA out of US made material or made in China out of the cheapest crap possible. Its good to have choices. Your point is made. No need to continually hammer the idea into the ground. I suspect you have been banned from other online communities for reasons other than pointing out "value", as others have suggested above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 As Porter is alluding to, maybe you got banned because you're an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinp Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 From my experience… tarptents are not worth the cash. I bought a double rainbow a few years back and found some of the design features to be poorly engineered and the manufacturing of the tent sub-par. Having said that, it’s a good lightweight backpacking tent that stays dry in a storm. I agree with genepires, you get what you pay for, but I will not be buying another tarptent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) 1.9 ounce polyester is a commodity product and it's not likely that BD acquires this textile from U.S. sources. I'm an idiot and rotten as astutely pointed out by your really warm, smart and good personalities. But the Wenzel tent is a really good deal. These homemade tents are really nice, but for MOST of the Cascades and all of the Sierras in summer, to say nothing of summer on Eastern Seaboard, the super-cheap Chinese versions for less than twenty dollars versus nearly three hundred dollars, offer similar performance. Black Diamond tents, disregarding lack of bug netting, are significantly better, and worth the money. Personally I used a Wal-Mart puptent intensively for more than ten years, and currently use a Hex-3 and an MSR Twin Peaks. Edited December 30, 2008 by johndavidjr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I'm an idiot and rotten You cant help it... you're from the east coast BD is actually extremely selective in their raw material sourcing as well as product testing, etc etc hence the loyal following by many of us here and on other forums. I’d say the proof is in the pudding: if you are so confident in your hypothesis take your Wenzel tent as described above on some serious gnar (Mt Washington in winter or something) and post a TR w/ pics. I suspect many of us would give your recommendation more credibility when you have some substance to show for. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) My daddy used to sell textiles. They used to make it all in the South to get away from labor unions. Now it's all from Asia. They don't make textiles much any more in the U.S. Mostly it's a "comodity" product. Nobody really pays attention to which factory it comes from. I purchased coated nylon puptent in 1979 for $20 and used it for seven continuous weeks in summer biking in Canada and New England without complaint. Each summer following, I used it fairly intensively until 1990, when my friend abandoned it in Costa Rica for reasons I cannot account for. I had a little problem in a Spring blizzard with this tent in 1982, and cannot recommend this design for really bad weather. I encountered people using similar coated puptents in British Columbia and California earlier during 1970s during summer without complaint. Summer weather is... normally not too bad. That's why lots of people like the three-hundred-dollar Tarptents.......... Edited December 30, 2008 by johndavidjr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 ooooh... Biking. In the summer. Yes that is definitely serrrrrious gnar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) I've been camping in Cascades for probably twenty summers.. in past thirty years......and the weather in Nova Scotia that year was worse than anything I've seen high in the Washington mountains. Summer in Cascades, apart from mosquitos, is typically pretty nice, as I'm sure you realize. Nobody would want to use a $300 HS Tarptent in Cascades in winter. But an MSR Twin Peaks or Hex or Black Diamond would be certainly be useable below treeline. A $19 Wal-Mart tent would be okay along Puget Sound, where I spent several weeks camping in winter during a few years back in the seventies, using a rectangular REI tarp. Here in New York area, winter weather is extremely variable. Notably more so than on West Coast. At times, conditions are as bad or even worse than what is typical for winter in Cascades. The current forecast for Catskills over next several days calls for lows in single-digits and winds of up to 40 mph. There is also expectation of a snowfall of more than ten inches. etc. Yesterday the high temps in Catskills were nearly fifty degrees. Edited December 30, 2008 by johndavidjr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 This is exciting talk for you - all this mention of tight pup tents, rigid poles and pitching. Isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Tis..a great deal of nostalgia about all the years camping here and there........and seriously I've always admired that owl thing you got up there...very cool and amusing. BUT let's get back to my point. A scrim of cheap coated fabric over your head, perhaps with a bit of bug netting, for less than twenty dollars.......or more than $250.....which is the wiser choice???........ My very light and dirt-cheap tent with mosquito netting was far superior to a simple tarp during July on buzzing coast of Atlantic Canada, and it performed well enough in a couple of Nor'easters and various thunder storms. Edited December 30, 2008 by johndavidjr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 You should buy up all these Walmart tents and resell them as J. Peterman Pup tents. I purchased coated nylon puptent in 1979 for $20 and used it for seven continuous weeks in summer biking in Canada and New England without complaint. Each summer following, I used it fairly intensively until 1990, when my friend abandoned it in Costa Rica for reasons I cannot account for. Then I happened across these wonderful tents in Walmart, and bought up the whole stock to bring the quality and value home to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Summarize: Same fabric as Black Diamond Mega/Betamid. Weight little more than two pounds, assuming non-use of provided fiberglass poles. Ten-year warranty vs. ninety days for HS Tarptent and one year for BD. Fully insect-proof with floor and netting. Price is $19 plus change vs $265 for HS Tarptent. Totally viable tent for Cascades summer conditions up to say, maybe, 9,000 feet. Best for one person, but can be used for two people. The HS Tarptent is similarly usuable only for summer. No rainfly. Can be re-sold for at least $130....(see relevant forums). Edited December 30, 2008 by johndavidjr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 You're forgetting stitches per inch. But it sounds like you're already made up your mind. Looking forward to a TR with you using your tent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climbsonrocks Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 You are comparing apples to oranges (but I think I smell spam). The Ultra lights are two - three man tents. The Walmart tent is a one man tent. 2 man tents require a lot more fabric than a 1 man tent and therefore the 1 man Walmart tent will be able to have a similar overall weight as the Ultra light 2 man tent. Since the Walmart tent does not have a fly and the Ultra lights do that is also a lot less fabric that is used in the Walmart tent, which keeps its' weight down. Perhaps the biggest reason to have a tent is to keep you dry. A tent without a fly gets condensation on the inside when the temperature gets low enough (usually happens in the high country even in the summer) and it gets wet on the inside. If the Walmart tent were at least a two man tent you could stay far enough away from the sides and stay dry (not easy to do and you don't have to worry about that with a fly tent), but in a one man tent you can't and you will get wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 The Wenzel is advertised as 25 square feet-- quite large for a one-person tent. A NF 2-person is advertised at 27 SF. The "Ultra lights," like many widely used shelters, don't have flies. There is condensation, but if you never want to experience dampness, never camp out and do move to Las Vegas. Wenzel uses "welded" seams in floor, a technology found in some Marmot and Mt Hardwear tents. Other seams are double stitched, lap-feld. Needs sealing. Arguably more effective than plastic sheeting, another very viable summer shelter. The point is to compare it especially with other tents that are unequivocally summer shelters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsroll Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 WOW this is a great gear thread. NOT. What is your point with all this. Are you trying to get us to buy that tent? Or are you wanting validation that the walmart tent is the best thing since sliced bread. If that is the case, you made your point. I am going to go right out and buy one. Now can this thread die already. Isn't there some east coast forum that you could spam? Oh wait you got banned from all of those, lucky us..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Why does discussion of extremely inexpensive, light and simple equipment for benign summer weather engender hostility? Is it some kind of threat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frikadeller Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Looks like the users in your provided link thought the tent sucked too.... Item not as described, 11/12/2008 By macgyver221 Read all reviews by this reviewer Read all reviews by this reviewer Overall Rating: 1 out of 5 1 out of 5 Product Attributes: Value: 1 out of 5 1 out of 5 Meets Expectations: 1 out of 5 1 out of 5 I took this tent backpacking last weekend. The specs looked right and the price was good. The tent was, however, a complete disaster. On anything other than flat, dry ground, the tent is very tedious to set up. The tent only retains its shape as long as the poles are anchored into the ground. In wet ground, that's very difficult to do. After wrestling with the tent for a good 15 minutes, I tried to stow my gear inside. The space is no where near what is described. When I got back from my trip, I measured the tent and it was a full 10 inches shorter than advertised when erect. During the course of the night, my head was sticking out the end of the tent because the tent is that small. Also, you cannot roll over or turn AT ALL when inside or you risk knocking the poles out. There is no ventilation inside the tent whatsoever. Stay away from this tent. You can do much better for your money. Recommends this product? No 0 of 1 people found this review helpful. Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_Husbands Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I buy and use half-assed crap all the time. It works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 A cheap puptent's weight, and its functionality in fending off the ferocious summertime weather of the West Coast, compares favorably with the thrill of sleep in latest and finest jobs made by magic Swedish dwarves or hippie engineers. Builders plastic lacks netting. There is so much hype about backpacking gear out there it makes me ill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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