Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
bozeb

Mathematically ideal bolt/pro placement?

Recommended Posts

I am wondering if anyone knows of some literature about the ideal spacing between bolts/pro. I am thinking that there must be someone who has actually figured out what the ideal spacing is, and I just want to know. I know there are a lot of variables in climbing but some things can be figured out... looking for some help here. (I have read "Rope System Analysis" by Stephen W. Attaway, and though it is very insightful, it doesn't deal with the spacing...)

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Peace.

bb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a fall factor <1, and say you put the first piece in ten feet off the belay, then the next piece goes in at 20, then 40, then 80, then nothing till the top!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"...don’t lead out more than 1/4 the belayed rope length."

 

The world would be short a lot of good climbs if everyone follows all of Steve's advice to the letter...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For a fall factor <1, and say you put the first piece in ten feet off the belay, then the next piece goes in at 20, then 40, then 80, then nothing till the top!

 

Of course, if it's a multi-pitch route, if someone fell 9 feet off the belay while trying to clip, it would be an 18' fall - massive fall factor 2 right onto the anchor. Hanging belay would add the weight of the belayer onto the calculation. If there was a ledge, add potential 2 broken ankles to the score. You don't say anything about the route. What is this anyway, Canadian new math?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For a fall factor <1, and say you put the first piece in ten feet off the belay, then the next piece goes in at 20, then 40, then 80, then nothing till the top!

 

Of course, if it's a multi-pitch route, if someone fell 9 feet off the belay while trying to clip, it would be an 18' fall - massive fall factor 2 right onto the anchor. Hanging belay would add the weight of the belayer onto the calculation. If there was a ledge, add potential 2 broken ankles to the score. You don't say anything about the route. What is this anyway, Canadian new math?

 

The route is called BILL SWALLOWS THE HOOK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The route is called BILL SWALLOWS THE HOOK

That must be an extension to the popular trade route, BILL SWALLOWS?

[/spray]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it definately must follow a fibonaci sequence. 1ft ,1ft ,2ft ,3ft ,5ft ,8ft ,13ft ,21ft ,34ft ,55ft ,89ft, ect.

 

there needs to be 2 bolts at 1ft away from the anchor for the high fall factor. With this spacing, it will be so natural that strict traditionalists will like it.

 

Maybe the golden rectangle can fit in there somehow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The route is called BILL SWALLOWS THE HOOK

 

DOHHH! :lmao: ...

 

.

.

.

 

 

That must be an extension to the popular trade route, BILL SWALLOWS?

[/spray]

 

OUCH!

Homer-Simpson-doh.jpg

 

 

:wave:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like the useful take-aways from techno-threads involving traditional pro usually amount to something like:

 

1. If you're on a multi-pitch route, get in bomber pieces as soon as you can to protect against a factor two fall onto the anchor.

 

2. All things being equal, putting in pro at closer intervals after you've started a route/pitch will help reduce the risk that the high-impact forces generated by small amount of rope between you and your belayer will result in a ground/factor-2 fall, but you can space things out a bit more as you move away from the ground/belay if the pro's good and you're looking at a clean fall.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sort of related...

 

~Doubling up on pro before sections that are cruxy and climbing through them to the next good stance/placement instead of thrutching around pumping out while trying to get an intermediate piece of gear in the cruxy stretch seems to be useful for me, when the conditions allow it, but that's more of a "mentally optimal pro" thing than a "mathematically optimal pro" thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
it definately must follow a fibonaci sequence. 1ft ,1ft ,2ft ,3ft ,5ft ,8ft ,13ft ,21ft ,34ft ,55ft ,89ft, ect.

 

there needs to be 2 bolts at 1ft away from the anchor for the high fall factor. With this spacing, it will be so natural that strict traditionalists will like it.

 

Use the sequence as a limit on the distance between bolts (not the overall elevation), and you cover both G-spotter's and Billcoe's points well.

 

Maybe the golden rectangle can fit in there somehow.

 

It already does. The limit as N -> infinity, where N is the number's position in the sequence; G.R. = (N+1)/N or N/(N+1) (depending on which ratio you are interested in). Any sequence of the form (N+1) = N + (N-1) does...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You must be the golden rectangle, gp.

 

What would be ideal? If you want to limit the peak force in a fall then yes, you could space the pro farther apart as you got higher, but that would be scary. Most climbers prefer to limit the distance fallen, so pro should be spaced at equal intervals. From what I see on bolted routes we live in an ideal world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude asks a freakin question and some of you are actually trying to answer him respectfully. I think that’s pretty cool. So what the hell is wrong with the rest of you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×