The Republicans are doomed!!

[j_b]

So people like you voted for Bush because of TV ads?

 

25% of voting age folks is more or less the constituancy of the rightwing lunatic fringe. Even now Bush's approval numbers are about that many.

 

Didn't Obama outspend McCain 5:1 in the last month of the last election?

 

 

Yes, he beat you at your own game money-wise but he didn't appeal to fear.

[bradleym]

so everyone is corrupt or stupid except you, and all problems facing us have simple explanations and solutions. why didn't we make you president?

 

Hi Bradley! Good bumping into you last night. You should have been doing laps earlier in the year with us outside before it rained. BTW, there is a little climbing wall close to your work in Lake Oswego. Kevbone found it only as his company was moving across the river, so I thought I'd just say it now. Maybe it's all old news. Also, Ujahn has like 3 secret bouldering areas close to you, he use to live @ a block off the lake and found these spots while on runs etc. Ask him about it sometime he doesn't keep secrets. I went to one once, and it's a little shithole, but I got pumped fast. (common occurrence:-)

 

likewise bill. anytime you guys need a belay slave, give me a shout, but don't expect me to lead. i'll carry the rope. I've heard about the little wall in LO, but I don't know where it is, so if anyone could shoot me a pm, i'd be grateful...

 

i'll see you some wed/thurs at stoneworks, and i'll remember my harness.

[bradleym]

So, I guess you didn't have a specific reply to any of my arguments? Fancy that.

 

Well, if you presented 'arguments' as you say, then I suppose I could reply to them. What you offer are assertions, though, which can only be responded to by counter assertions, ad infinitum.

 

"The Economist are a pack of corrupt, corporatist, right-wing, free-market jackals!"

 

"No, they're not!"

 

"Yes, they are!"

 

Who wants to have a discussion like that? The right-wingers around here (or others who just want to have a bit of fun) can't help but engage in a bit of "red-baiting" as you call it.

 

If you present a reasoned argument, supported by evidence, that addresses the complexities of the situation, then people will respond in kind. If you only engage in extremist ranting, then idem, and you will never get your message across.

 

ciao.

[JayB]

So, I guess you didn't have a specific reply to any of my arguments? Fancy that.

 

Well, if you presented 'arguments' as you say, then I suppose I could reply to them. What you offer are assertions, though, which can only be responded to by counter assertions, ad infinitum.

 

"The Economist are a pack of corrupt, corporatist, right-wing, free-market jackals!"

 

"No, they're not!"

 

"Yes, they are!"

 

Who wants to have a discussion like that? The right-wingers around here (or others who just want to have a bit of fun) can't help but engage in a bit of "red-baiting" as you call it.

 

If you present a reasoned argument, supported by evidence, that addresses the complexities of the situation, then people will respond in kind. If you only engage in extremist ranting, then idem, and you will never get your message across.

 

ciao.

 

Bradley, I for one hope that this exchange is all of the proof that you need to demonstrate that the oft-denounced tendency to "oversimplify the world into black and white categories" is only found on the political right.

 

Ergo...millions of people bought SUV's because the big-three used fiendishly persuasive advertising campaigns that left them little choice but to comply, etc...

 

Shield your eyes, or submit to your masters and get ready to gas-up!

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0awYFO09Aw

 

 

[j_b]

So, I guess you didn't have a specific reply to any of my arguments? Fancy that.

 

Well, if you presented 'arguments' as you say, then I suppose I could reply to them. What you offer are assertions, though, which can only be responded to by counter assertions, ad infinitum.

 

I gave plenty of facts in my post that you could contest if you really wanted to have a discussion but you seem more interested in dismissing off hand my entire post.

 

"The Economist are a pack of corrupt, corporatist, right-wing, free-market jackals!"

 

"No, they're not!"

 

"Yes, they are!"

 

The fact you had to make up this fake exchange instead of quoting my post speaks volume about your methods.

 

 

 

Who wants to have a discussion like that? The right-wingers around here (or others who just want to have a bit of fun) can't help but engage in a bit of "red-baiting" as you call it.

 

YOu don't know what the hell you are talking about. The goons have been at it on this board for years.

 

present a reasoned argument, supported by evidence, that addresses the complexities of the situation, then people will respond in kind. If you only engage in extremist ranting, then idem, and you will never get your message across.

 

ciao.

 

It's interesting how you are doing precisely what you accuse me of doing. In 2 posts you haven't presented a single fact to counter anything I said; yet, you feel that you can make blanket assertions without evidence. The Economist is pro-war, pro-deregulation and 100% pro-"free" market, pro-Bush, pro-Reagan: they are extremist, I am not.

[j_b]

 

Bradley, I for one hope that this exchange is all of the proof that you need to demonstrate that the oft-denounced tendency to "oversimplify the world into black and white categories" is only found on the political right.

 

Too funny. The anarcho-capitalists who used to argue that we ought to shrink government to be better able to drown it in a bathtub, who argued in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary that attacking Iraq was the right thing to do (and killed 100's of thousands in the process), now try to present themselves as centrists who can do nuances and bring reasonnable solutions to the debacle their extremists policies have caused. George Orwell is probably doing somersaults in his grave right now.

[billcoe]

anytime you guys need a belay slave, give me a shout, but don't expect me to lead. i'll carry the rope. I've heard about the little wall in LO, but I don't know where it is, so if anyone could shoot me a pm, i'd be grateful...

 

Cool, I'll lead anything you want. I usually don't like to lead gym routes or short routes, but I make an exception for LO wall. BTW, it's not the best spot to boulder, and don't blame me for it being a little shithole, but I PM'ed you a copy of Johns directions. For some damn reason, it stays generally damper/wetter than say: Ozone, despite both being south facing crags. However, you can often get a quick afterwork pump there. Ujahn use to live less than a mile away, so it was very convenient for a while for me to pop over there after work to get a burn.

[JayB]

 

Bradley, I for one hope that this exchange is all of the proof that you need to demonstrate that the oft-denounced tendency to "oversimplify the world into black and white categories" is only found on the political right.

 

Too funny. The anarcho-capitalists who used to argue that we ought to shrink government to be better able to drown it in a bathtub, who argued in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary that attacking Iraq was the right thing to do (and killed 100's of thousands in the process), now try to present themselves as centrists who can do nuances and bring reasonnable solutions to the debacle their extremists policies have caused. George Orwell is probably doing somersaults in his grave right now.

 

If we take your arguments at face value, we have little choice but to conclude that he's far more likely to be contentedly gazing upon the contours of his new V-8 SUV, no?

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Special for the Evil Homonym: Taco vs North Pole! Traverse the ice while you melt it to oblivion! The ultimate conquest...

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3124238197005935261

[bradleym]

anytime you guys need a belay slave, give me a shout, but don't expect me to lead. i'll carry the rope. I've heard about the little wall in LO, but I don't know where it is, so if anyone could shoot me a pm, i'd be grateful...

 

Cool, I'll lead anything you want. I usually don't like to lead gym routes or short routes, but I make an exception for LO wall. BTW, it's not the best spot to boulder, and don't blame me for it being a little shithole, but I PM'ed you a copy of Johns directions. For some damn reason, it stays generally damper/wetter than say: Ozone, despite both being south facing crags. However, you can often get a quick afterwork pump there. Ujahn use to live less than a mile away, so it was very convenient for a while for me to pop over there after work to get a burn.

 

my son and i went to the circuit yesterday, then followed your instructions and found the wall. thanks. when the warm weather comes back, i'll be keen to give a shot.

[bradleym]

j_b, I really don't know what to say to you. I'll try one more time...

 

Like you, I have always been opposed to the Iraq war, and I am angry about all the needless loss of life. I am no friend to disciples of ayn rand (greenspan), friedmanism or reaganism, and the way the republican party (via atwater, rove and now 'the bullet') have exploited religious / cultural issues and nationalism (and in fact, racism) to implement their short-sighted policies is repugnant to me.

 

I watched in 2004 as an extremist wing of that party twisted Kerry's words from his testimony 30 years ago to make it seem as though he was critical of the troops, and thus they questioned his patriotism and suitability. It was completely wrong, but people went for it.

 

I have watched the tax policies of the bush administration, in concert with the monetary policies of the fed, and how they have systematically dismantled environmental protections and followed policies that affect my children and grandchildren very negatively.

 

in short, my libtard credentials are good (though maybe not as pure as yours), and you and I may actually agree on many things (though on some we do not), though your knee-jerk reactions are leading you to think otherwise.

 

The 'goons' as you call them are well-known on this site, and for the most part they are ignored or dismissed with the derision they deserve. It doesn't really pay to respond to them in kind, though from time to time someone may (again) demolish their assertions. There are others on the site (I've only been lurking here for 3-4 years) who are 'conservative' but who don't strike me as 'goons'. They may engage in the fun from time to time, especially when someone as easily upset as you are comes along, but I've seen where they present reasoned arguments to support their views and claims. I may not agree, but at least a polite conversation is possible.

 

If you want to be taken seriously, and if you honestly want to convince anyone of anything, then you must resist being a goon yourself. I'm not saying that you are, but you do have a tendency to present fairly categorical assertions in a way that invites only a fight of some sort.

 

For example, here is one of your 'facts' or 'arguments' from the last post:

 

'The Economist is pro-war, pro-deregulation and 100% pro-"free" market, pro-Bush, pro-Reagan: they are extremist, I am not'

 

Would it surprise you to know that the Economist endorsed Kerry in '04, and Obama in '08? Certainly, in general they support 'free-market' principles, but they also recognize the faults and failures, and support (moderate) government intervention to restrain that. Do I agree with everything the Economist says? No, I disagree regularly, but I also agree regularly (I've been reading it for 20+ years). They supported the war, but have been extremely critical of its execution, which has dramatically increased the number of deaths, for example.

 

In short, the Economist are not 'extremist' as you say (compare them to the Weekly Standard or Fox News some time). They may support some things with which you don't agree, but they also have a sophisticated view of a complex world, they understand the give and the take, and I think their motives are as pure as anyone's.

 

Well, the kids and I are headed to Hood. We might make for I-Rock, to search for Ivan's turd or something...

[RedNose]

Of course, the republicans have pandered to the uneducated and religious lunatic fringe. BUT did it really take 30 years for The Economist to figure it out? I am tempted to ponder whether the uneducated class or The Economist are the morons in this affair. Until the economy forced most people to consider their economic welfare instead of the usual rightwing pandering to xenophobia, racism, homophobia, etc .., 25% of the voting population was suffcient to win, and more recently steal, elections. In fact, I still can't see how Palin is obviously more incompetent than Bush or Reagan who by the way were championed by The Economist.

 

The Economist is pure ideological propaganda. They refuse to draw the appropriate lessons from the GOP debacle, which was in great part due to the economic and financial collapse following 30 years of neoliberal policies which have destroyed the middle class. Policies of extreme inequalities that were and still are championned by The Economist.

 

If I were you Dave, I'd tell my father to quit reading that trash.

A direct quote from a mental midget.

I see that the ass-gay-climbers are pounding their meat or clits to the rhythm of Obama campaign party music.

Well, hope you all enjoy the new and changed United Socialist Amerika. Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

[pc313]

William Clinton was the frist Rhodes Scholar to become President!

Happiness is being loved and respected all over the World!

 

George W Bush was the frist Born agian drunk with two DWIs And one Drug Possession charge in NY for Cocaine to become President!

Happiness is have your dad as the head of the CIA(1976) To clean your rap sheet,and being hated all over the World!

Edited November 24, 2008 by pc313

[Mr. Spock]

A direct quote from a mental midget.

I see that the ass-gay-climbers are pounding their meat or clits to the rhythm of Obama campaign party music.

Well, hope you all enjoy the new and changed United Socialist Amerika. Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

 

Fascinating.

[Fairweather]

Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

 

Damn straight.

[glassgowkiss]

Prole, may I suggest PRAVDA.ru? I peruse it now and again. Might be to your liking.

aren't you a closet ball licker? may i remind you republifuck solution to free market economy is straight from soviet playbook? so stfu, you voted for it closet commie.

[pc313]

Ya, in 2 years they will lose more seats!

[glassgowkiss]

Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

 

Damn straight.

but for now squeal like a pig fat boy.

[pc313]

Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

 

Damn straight.

but for now squeal like a pig fat boy.

 

[Fairweather]

Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

 

Damn straight.

but for now squeal like a pig fat boy.

 

I will personally deport your scrawny ass.

[glassgowkiss]

Of course, the republicans have pandered to the uneducated and religious lunatic fringe. BUT did it really take 30 years for The Economist to figure it out? I am tempted to ponder whether the uneducated class or The Economist are the morons in this affair. Until the economy forced most people to consider their economic welfare instead of the usual rightwing pandering to xenophobia, racism, homophobia, etc .., 25% of the voting population was suffcient to win, and more recently steal, elections. In fact, I still can't see how Palin is obviously more incompetent than Bush or Reagan who by the way were championed by The Economist.

 

The Economist is pure ideological propaganda. They refuse to draw the appropriate lessons from the GOP debacle, which was in great part due to the economic and financial collapse following 30 years of neoliberal policies which have destroyed the middle class. Policies of extreme inequalities that were and still are championned by The Economist.

 

If I were you Dave, I'd tell my father to quit reading that trash.

A direct quote from a mental midget.

I see that the ass-gay-climbers are pounding their meat or clits to the rhythm of Obama campaign party music.

Well, hope you all enjoy the new and changed United Socialist Amerika. Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

aren't you a mental giant. mental you are, all right. maybe you should remember illegal wire taps, fucked economy, bailing private companies with public funds, all time high budget deficit all thanks to brilliant strategy of repubican party. now go, change your diaper and don't interrupts when adults speak.

[glassgowkiss]

Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

 

Damn straight.

but for now squeal like a pig fat boy.

 

I will personally deport your scrawny ass.

for now you have pig ass to fuck. personally you can kiss my ass loser.

[glassgowkiss]

Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

 

Damn straight.

but for now squeal like a pig fat boy.

 

I will personally deport your scrawny ass.

 

3 months ago you were saying you know this country better then me and Obama had no chance winning. your opinions don't mean sheit lard ass cock jockey.

[Skeezix]

Republicans are done. So STFU.

[TREETOAD]

Ah yes MCcain and wutzerface by a landslide

[pc313]

Enjoy it while you can, because change will come again. ::

 

Damn straight.

but for now squeal like a pig fat boy.

 

I will personally deport your scrawny ass.

 

3 months ago you were saying you know this country better then me and Obama had no chance winning. your opinions don't mean sheit lard ass cock jockey.