Iraq

[olyclimber]

scott, what is your definition of "victory in iraq"?

[scott_harpell]

Short Version: Training the Iraqi Military and Police well enough to take care of themselves and to set the Iraqi government up for sucess. Also to make sure provisions are made for basic necessities.

 

These are prerequisites to ensure that we do not go back

[builder206]

Speaking of "idiots"

 

"Jack Lucas, who at 14 lied his way into military service during World War II and became the youngest Marine to receive the Medal of Honor, died Thursday in a Hattiesburg, Miss., hospital. He was 80.

 

"Jacklyn "Jack" Lucas was just six days past his 17th birthday in February 1945 when his heroism at Iwo Jima earned him the nation's highest military honor. He used his body to shield three fellow squad members from two grenades, and was nearly killed when one exploded."

 

There's a guy who had a pair.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004459564_weblucasobit06.html

[scott_harpell]

I want to hear it! Why are we losing? Why do you think this war is pointless? Because Nancy Pelosi told you that the surge didn't work? Because Obama, who has never even been to Iraq (even after the trip was offered to him) has told you we are losing? WHY?

[Hugh Conway]

I want to hear it! Why are we losing? Why do you think this war is pointless? Because Nancy Pelosi told you that the surge didn't work? Because Obama, who has never even been to Iraq (even after the trip was offered to him) has told you we are losing? WHY?

 

we are a bunch of dumbcunt civilian peaceniks, why do you care?

[scott_harpell]

I want to hear it! Why are we losing? Why do you think this war is pointless? Because Nancy Pelosi told you that the surge didn't work? Because Obama, who has never even been to Iraq (even after the trip was offered to him) has told you we are losing? WHY?

 

we are a bunch of dumbcunt civilian peaceniks, why do you care?

 

I don't understand your rationale for so emphatically speaking out against something when I haven't even heard the reason why.

[Stefan]

If a company threw a lot of money at a product they thought was going to sell, and threw a lot of more money at the product, and the product never sold, the company would quickly exit taking a write off on their financial books. They have a responsibility to the stockholders to increase equity.

 

At least the company tried.

[Hugh Conway]

I don't understand your rationale for so emphatically speaking out against something when I haven't even heard the reason why.

 

you've repeatedly told us we don't know what we are talking about and that your opinion is more valide because of your opinion.

 

you repeatedly refuse to offer concrete evidence to support your opinions.

 

this is why people think you are a confrontational asshole

[gertlush]

So you've spent probably over a trillion dollars, lost 4,000 dead soldiers, caused the deaths of god knows how many Iraqi's, the stated reasons for why the US went to war have been proven absolutely false, you have dismembered the state of Iraq (are the Kurds going to submit to the central gov't?) You have empowered the governing party allied with Iran...

 

May was the lowest casualty month yet..is that because the Sadr army decided they didn't want to fight for a month? 8 americans have already been killed this month, almost 1/2 as died in all of May..I dunno...

 

How about you tell us why you think you are winning?

[scott_harpell]

I don't understand your rationale for so emphatically speaking out against something when I haven't even heard the reason why.

 

you've repeatedly told us we don't know what we are talking about and that your opinion is more valide because of your opinion.

 

you repeatedly refuse to offer concrete evidence to support your opinions.

 

this is why people think you are a confrontational asshole

 

I don't think I am Hugh. I have had my opinions berated while inquiring about yours. I am sorry if I don't follow why you are so angry.

 

Do not take offense, but it certainly seems that you would rather attack me personally than answer the question that I posed.

 

If you refuse to answer this question and continue to attack my character, I am forced to assume that it is you that is in fact the troll here; not I.

 

I have come here to understand the opinions of people who have differing opinions than I do and do explain my own thought processes.

 

I really can't remember having sex with any woman with the last name Conway so I cannot understand why you are so incessant in your attacks of me.

 

If you think I am attacking you personally Hugh, I assure you that it is just my type A personality. It is not directed at you in particular, I just was born type A and then had it pounded into me for the last few years. If your skin is too thin to deal with me, I can try to tone it down for you if you'd like

[Hugh Conway]

scott, many people think you post like an asshole, not just me

[TREETOAD]

Hey Prole--at least Treetoad is willing to admit he's an America-hating commie fuck. Why don't you step up, ya little Bellingham cunt?

 

As usual your conceptions could not be further from fact..and your verbal attack is so typical of the "for us or against us" mindset of people of your ilk.

I have nothing at all against America and as a matter of fact go there often. I have lived next door all my life and have always taken an interest in what went on there. I have also noticed the differences between my country and yours.

I am a socialist in most respects of the word. I believe that we should take care of each other, locally and globally. I think that everyone is equal and should have the same opportunities to health and education, no matter how much money they have. I hate to see things squandered, especially the power and greatness of a fantastic country, by a group of evil and treacherous men that have no regard for the lives they waste so long as it serves their misguided ideology. I think that the Bush administration has your hijacked democracy. I think that your country has been through some of it's darkest days ever in the last few years and that most people do not even realize it. I think that the coming election is a classic battle of good and evil. Most people I know think so too.

I know it is not worth the key strokes to try to change your mind so all I can do is state what I see and what I hear from the the people around me.

 

Edited June 5, 2008 by TREETOAD

[ivan]

I want to hear it! Why are we losing? Why do you think this war is pointless? Because Nancy Pelosi told you that the surge didn't work? Because Obama, who has never even been to Iraq (even after the trip was offered to him) has told you we are losing? WHY?

hate to split hairs w/ you, but homeboy has been there, if only for a few days

[scott_harpell]

I find it comical that you imply that I think all of your opinions don't matter.

 

When you say that a man jumping on a grenade to save his friends' live is "idiotic," Youbetchya. When you say that you will commend me for my service only if it means that I will not be deployed to a combat zone... youbetchya.

 

I think the real reason you think I am an asshole Hugh is that my opinion differs from that of your own.

 

Perhaps if you put an ounce of thought as others have explaining their positions on the matter instead of insinuating that I am just some made up 'robot,' I could learn what it is that makes you against this so much.

 

Others have spend time and consideration in writing what they think and I appreciate and consider every post. You seem more personally engaged than with the topic at hand.

 

I really do think you must be a sad person to waste your life never even listeing and considering the other side's opinion. It may not change your mind, but it will shed light on others' positions.

 

If this was done on a larger (even global) scale, some of the hatred from xenophobia and misinterpretations might be avoided. Some people really think that this is a Crusade. Some people really think that all Muslims are evil. These are obvious misnomers and could easily be remedied with time and consideration.

 

You obviously don't know me if you think some anonymous avatar berating me because he can't address the real issue will dissuage me.

[scott_harpell]

I believe that we should take care of each other, locally and globally. I think that everyone is equal and should have the same opportunities to health and education, no matter how much money they have.

 

How would you suppose to do this in a place like Iraq? Or even in Sudan? If all were as devoted to equality as the average American and Canadian, the World would not need multi-national action.

 

The fact remains that bad things sometimes have to be done to bad people. This is somehting people often choose to forget when they talk about Darfur. How many people will die in an invasion in Darfur? It would make Iraq look like a fist fight.

 

War is evil and war is ugly. It does not change the fact that it is also necessary. As long as there are those that wish ill upon the weak, there will be a need for force to right the wrongs.

 

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who might do us harm." - George Orwell

[scott_harpell]

I want to hear it! Why are we losing? Why do you think this war is pointless? Because Nancy Pelosi told you that the surge didn't work? Because Obama, who has never even been to Iraq (even after the trip was offered to him) has told you we are losing? WHY?

hate to split hairs w/ you, but homeboy has been there, if only for a few days

 

After reading that article, that is one mighty fine hair.

[Hendershot]

Because Obama, who has never even been to Iraq (even after the trip was offered to him) has told you we are losing? WHY?

 

The Illinois senator made his only trip to Iraq in January 2006 as part of a congressional delegation. McCain, a senator from Arizona, has been to Iraq eight times, most recently in March.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-29-obama-mccain_N.htm

 

[dt_3pin]

Does it really matter how many times the candidates have visited Iraq? Bush has visited Iraq a number of times and he's a grade A douche bag.

 

 

[scott_harpell]

When you would rather go to Iran and chat it up with Adimenijihad than visit your troops? Yes.

 

If he is so clearly skeptical of everything that the Bush administration is telling him, wouldn't it be prudent to see it all for himself? Especially post-push?

[Hendershot]

No, Let's go to Iraq! With enough additional security, it's safe for an hour long visit to the market.

 

Senator John McCain, arrived at Shorja market on Sunday with more than 100 soldiers in armoured vehicles as attack helicopters circled overhead. Soldiers redirected traffic, restricted access to the Americans and sharpshooters were posted on the rooftops.

 

They wore bulletproof vests throughout their hour-long visit.

 

Senator McCain and his three colleagues described Shorja as a safe, bustling place full of hopeful and warmly welcoming Iraqis — "Like a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime," offered Republican Mike Pence.

 

"What are they talking about?" said Ali Jassim Faiyad, owner of an electrical appliances shop.

 

"The security procedures were abnormal. They paralysed the market when they came. This was only for the media."

 

The market the congressmen say they saw is fundamentally different from the market Iraqis know.

 

Merchants and customers say a campaign by insurgents to attack Baghdad's markets has put many shop owners out of business and forced radical changes in the way people shop.

 

Shorja, set in a sprawling labyrinth of narrow streets and alleys, has been bombed at least six times in the past few months.

 

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/senators-security-circus/2007/04/03/1175366241393.html

 

 

[scott_harpell]

No, Let's go to Iraq! With enough additional security, it's safe for an hour long visit to the market.

 

Senator John McCain, arrived at Shorja market on Sunday with more than 100 soldiers in armoured vehicles as attack helicopters circled overhead. Soldiers redirected traffic, restricted access to the Americans and sharpshooters were posted on the rooftops.

 

They wore bulletproof vests throughout their hour-long visit.

 

Senator McCain and his three colleagues described Shorja as a safe, bustling place full of hopeful and warmly welcoming Iraqis — "Like a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime," offered Republican Mike Pence.

 

"What are they talking about?" said Ali Jassim Faiyad, owner of an electrical appliances shop.

 

"The security procedures were abnormal. They paralysed the market when they came. This was only for the media."

 

The market the congressmen say they saw is fundamentally different from the market Iraqis know.

 

Merchants and customers say a campaign by insurgents to attack Baghdad's markets has put many shop owners out of business and forced radical changes in the way people shop.

 

Shorja, set in a sprawling labyrinth of narrow streets and alleys, has been bombed at least six times in the past few months.

 

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/senators-security-circus/2007/04/03/1175366241393.html

 

 

Good for Mr. McCain. I am sure glad that someone who will be commander of our military is willing to see, up close and personal, the type of environment his men will be fighting in.

 

[Hugh Conway]

When you say that a man jumping on a grenade to save his friends' live is "idiotic," Youbetchya. When you say that you will commend me for my service only if it means that I will not be deployed to a combat zone... youbetchya.

 

I think the real reason you think I am an asshole Hugh is that my opinion differs from that of your own.

 

still can't figure out who said what, can you Scott?

[Off_White]

I dunno, sounds to me like the man is willing to believe the dog and pony show represents everyday life. How many Saturday markets in Indiana have been bombed in the last few months?

[scott_harpell]

Did you want to discuss the topic at hand or did you just want to keep spitting out your cookie cutter epithets you have on command for anyone who disagrees with you?

[scott_harpell]

I dunno, sounds to me like the man is willing to believe the dog and pony show represents everyday life. How many Saturday markets in Indiana have been bombed in the last few months?

 

Lets be honest. He is trying to make his point. Just as Nancy Pelosi was when she said that violence was up in Iraq in the lowest month since the invasion.

 

Lets put this into perspective. A frontrunner for the next Oval Office ticket is walking down the street in Iraq. These are the same streets that are described by opponents as "hopeless." Takes guts and faith in your soldiers to do something like that. He has the faith that we will protect him, we will get the job done and we will continue to do what is needed to be done to suceed.