ivan Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 and while i'm at it, here's another einstein gem: "It may affront the military-minded person to suggest a regime that does not maintain any military secrets." Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Another small factor that contributed to our slow start in Europe: we had that little issue in the Pacific.... Quote
Fairweather Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 'you cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war' - albert einstein History has proven him wrong. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 When we stop having wars I'll beleive that. The nuclear arms race did not result in a nuclear war, or even a major conventional conflict, which is what Einstein was warning against with that quotation. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 (edited) When we stop having wars I'll beleive that. The nuclear arms race did not result in a nuclear war, or even a major conventional conflict, which is what Einstein was warning against with that quotation. Phony logic, intellectually equivalent to the oft stated "well, we haven't had an attack on Americans on our soil since 911 (just many, many attacks on foreign soil on Americans...and Europeans, and Pakistanis, and...) so the War on Terror must be working." The nuclear arms race came VERY CLOSE to a nuclear exchange on several occasions. The fact that such a catastrophe didn't happen was more dumb luck than anything. The Cold War was a really fucking dangerous, hair trigger situation for many, many years that led to many tragic and costly conventional wars, including, most notably, America's debacle in Vietnam. Here's some sounder logic: had neither country possessed a nuclear arsenal, than such an exchange would have remained impossible. Next.... Edited April 9, 2008 by tvashtarkatena Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Here's some more logic: Our biggest rival in the world today is? China. Chance right now for war with China is? Not very high. Why? China, despite it's large population, has a relatively diminutive military with very little power projection capability. It's not a threat. If China were to 'prepare for war' with the United States, how do you think the U.S. would respond and would the chances of an actual conflict increase or decrease? Hmmmm...that's a tough one..... Quote
billcoe Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Here's some more logic: Our biggest rival in the world today is? China. Chance right now for war with China is? Not very high. Why? China, despite it's large population, has a relatively diminutive military with very little power projection capability. It's not a threat. If China were to 'prepare for war' with the United States, how do you think the U.S. would respond and would the chances of an actual conflict increase or decrease? Hmmmm...that's a tough one..... I would submit you don't know a damn thing what the Chinese leadership is preparing for or not, so that is worthless speculation on your part. I suspect otherwise, based on obvious evidence seen daily, but have no interest in researching it for you. The fact is: China is currently actively and openly preparing for war with Taiwan. They have a 4+ year count down to war time frame which they have announced internally. This has not been publicized or discussed by our gov't for public consumption here as it would give us less wiggle room diplomatically. Do you not wonder what the US will do when this inevitably occurs? Shockingly: most other countries in SE Asia currently believe that China would currently win a war with the US. This will become more pronounced as they increase their capabilities via the transfer of dollars from consumers. The Chinese should be our allies, yet our hegemony and various poor forigon policy blunders scares them. I suspect that a conflict over resources will sadly occur eventually, as it did with Japan during WW2. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Here's some more logic: Our biggest rival in the world today is? China. Chance right now for war with China is? Not very high. Why? China, despite it's large population, has a relatively diminutive military with very little power projection capability. It's not a threat. If China were to 'prepare for war' with the United States, how do you think the U.S. would respond and would the chances of an actual conflict increase or decrease? Hmmmm...that's a tough one..... I would submit you don't know a damn thing what the Chinese leadership is preparing for or not, so that is worthless speculation on your part. I suspect otherwise, based on obvious evidence seen daily, but have no interest in researching it for you. The fact is: China is currently actively and openly preparing for war with Taiwan. They have a 4+ year count down to war time frame which they have announced internally. This has not been publicized or discussed by our gov't for public consumption here as it would give us less wiggle room diplomatically. Do you not wonder what the US will do when this inevitably occurs? Shockingly: most other countries in SE Asia currently believe that China would currently win a war with the US. This will become more pronounced as they increase their capabilities via the transfer of dollars from consumers. The Chinese should be our allies, yet our hegemony and various poor forigon policy blunders scares them. I suspect that a conflict over resources will sadly occur eventually, as it did with Japan during WW2. A five year old could produce a better analysis than this. Perhaps one did. Quote
ivan Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 speaking of china and the einstein quote - we have fought a war w/ china in the past 60 years, 1 directly and 1 indirectly. we didn't win either. who gives a shit about taiwain? it seems like no one gives a shit about tibet, so might as well throw in a tiny island that's way more ethnically chinese to match it, eh? having a huge military and dealing w/ china is only going to increase our desire to use that military on china and fuck up my ability to buy rubber dogshit for 1/20th the cost it takes for a mexican to make the same rubber dogshit finally - tvash and bill should be fawk'n nice to each other - you're both good guys Quote
billcoe Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 tvash and bill should be fawk'n nice to each other - you're both good guys Well thats good to hear about Trash. I will say in my defense, that my post wasn't an analysis though, it was stating facts which I know from first hand experience. The Taiwan invasion within 5 years thing I got from a Chi-Com party member who was shocked that it was new "news" to me, I reconfirmed it with a few other English speaking Chinese while visiting that country last year. Their defense posture re-confirms it: like mainland China loading up more and more on offensive missiles near the straits, pointing at Taiwan. Last public count was over 400, whereas a few years ago, there were none, and no reason for any now. As far as if the US would get involved, too many variables to list, however, most likely we would, and as I knocked heads describing this result to the Communist part member, it would result in many, many of her's and my countrymen dead. I could tell that she was not mentally prepared for a brutal war and US involvement: thats how they are rolling on the subject now anyway, just so you know. They think it will be a cakewalk, much like when they rolled Tibet, and we will stay out. Quote
Hugh Conway Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 tvash and bill should be fawk'n nice to each other - you're both good guys Well thats good to hear about Trash. I will say in my defense, that my post wasn't an analysis though, it was stating facts which I know from first hand experience. The Taiwan invasion within 5 years thing I got from a Chi-Com party member who was shocked that it was new "news" to me, I reconfirmed it with a few other English speaking Chinese while visiting that country last year. Their defense posture re-confirms it: like mainland China loading up more and more on offensive missiles near the straits, pointing at Taiwan. Last public count was over 400, whereas a few years ago, there were none, and no reason for any now. As far as if the US would get involved, too many variables to list, however, most likely we would, and as I knocked heads describing this result to the Communist part member, it would result in many, many of her's and my countrymen dead. I could tell that she was not mentally prepared for a brutal war and US involvement: thats how they are rolling on the subject now anyway, just so you know. They think it will be a cakewalk, much like when they rolled Tibet, and we will stay out. Are you retarded? At the current moment the US could wipe the floor with China militarily. The Economic repercussion would be longterm In 5 years ask again. Quote
ivan Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 i certainly have no desire to spend a single dollar or see a single american killed over taiwan, so i imagine a chinese move into taiwan would largely go unchallenged by us. it's not the cold war anymore - we don't have to back taiwan out of a belief in the domino theory anymore. to militarily oppose chinese reconquest of taiwan seems to me roughly similiar to great britain deciding to get militarily involved on the side of the confederacy during the civil war. it's pretty much internal chinese affairs. again, chinese conquest of tibet seems far shakier, and regardless, in taiwan or tibet, we should punish china non-violently for abusing the human rights of people there. i don't fear china becoming some austin-powers menace either - like any powerful nation that has a long history of dominating a wide region, they want to have the biggest dick in their area, that area happening to be eastern asia - why should i, a north american, give a damn, especially if its a non-violent empire they establish? okay, if they try to militarily invade the middle east we can zap'em, but really they appear to be doing the same thing we're doing there and elsewhere in the world - sucking it dry of its resources. how can i complain w/o being a screaming hypocrite? Quote
ivan Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Are you retarded? At the current moment the US could wipe the floor with China militarily. we have nukes - they have nukes. we have more nukes. so what? it's a MAD scenario all over again... and again, we were plenty arrogant in the 50s about our military strength compared to the PLA, and then they busted our asses all the way back to the 38th parallel and kept us there. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Here's some more logic: Our biggest rival in the world today is? China. Chance right now for war with China is? Not very high. Why? China, despite it's large population, has a relatively diminutive military with very little power projection capability. It's not a threat. If China were to 'prepare for war' with the United States, how do you think the U.S. would respond and would the chances of an actual conflict increase or decrease? Hmmmm...that's a tough one..... I would submit you don't know a damn thing what the Chinese leadership is preparing for or not, so that is worthless speculation on your part. I suspect otherwise, based on obvious evidence seen daily, but have no interest in researching it for you. The fact is: China is currently actively and openly preparing for war with Taiwan. They have a 4+ year count down to war time frame which they have announced internally. This has not been publicized or discussed by our gov't for public consumption here as it would give us less wiggle room diplomatically. Do you not wonder what the US will do when this inevitably occurs? Shockingly: most other countries in SE Asia currently believe that China would currently win a war with the US. This will become more pronounced as they increase their capabilities via the transfer of dollars from consumers. The Chinese should be our allies, yet our hegemony and various poor forigon policy blunders scares them. I suspect that a conflict over resources will sadly occur eventually, as it did with Japan during WW2. How would China taking Taiwan pose a national security threat to the US? Sure, it would set a bad tone on the international stage. It could be an opening salvo to Chinese hegemony in the east. But, what effect does it really have on us here? Quote
Fairweather Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 The Chinese would almost certainly sink a US carrier were we to come to Taiwan's aid in our usual manner. And that would mean all out war. I don't think it would be worth the risk. I guess that scenario all depends on who's sitting in The White House when it finally happens. Quote
Bug Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 How is the government of China different from Saddam Hussien's government? Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 How is the government of China different from Saddam Hussien's government? For one thing, they speak Chinese. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 tvash and bill should be fawk'n nice to each other - you're both good guys Well thats good to hear about Trash. I will say in my defense, that my post wasn't an analysis though, it was stating facts which I know from first hand experience. The Taiwan invasion within 5 years thing I got from a Chi-Com party member who was shocked that it was new "news" to me, I reconfirmed it with a few other English speaking Chinese while visiting that country last year. Their defense posture re-confirms it: like mainland China loading up more and more on offensive missiles near the straits, pointing at Taiwan. Last public count was over 400, whereas a few years ago, there were none, and no reason for any now. As far as if the US would get involved, too many variables to list, however, most likely we would, and as I knocked heads describing this result to the Communist part member, it would result in many, many of her's and my countrymen dead. I could tell that she was not mentally prepared for a brutal war and US involvement: thats how they are rolling on the subject now anyway, just so you know. They think it will be a cakewalk, much like when they rolled Tibet, and we will stay out. An invasion of Taiwan is sooooo 2004. That's about when analysts at Brookings and the Naval War College and elsewhere started spouting off about such a possibility...to be completed and cleaned up before that 2008 Olympics, of course. Well, that window of opportunity has closed. Maybe next time. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 The U.S. should come to Taiwan's military aid should the Chinese invade. I, for one, do not want to see 'Made in Taiwan' become 'Made in China' on my purchases. Quote
archenemy Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 That is a great step back into my childhood. Look at the girls behaving themselves in the kitchen and everything! Quote
archenemy Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 How is the government of China different from Saddam Hussien's government? For one thing, they speak Chinese. FUCK! I just lost some of my Dr. Pepper thru my nose! Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 How is the government of China different from Saddam Hussien's government? For one thing, they speak Chinese. FUCK! I just lost some of my Dr. Pepper thru my nose! Quote
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