Missile Command...

[jared_j]

Esplanades

 

are likely even pricer than Escalades

!

[tvashtarkatena]

I love how some idiots on this site convince themselves that they actually understand what other people understand.

[ALLCAPS]

HERE TO SHOUT PAST PEOPLE. IT IS SELF EXPRESSION, NOT STANDARD TWO WAY COMMUNICATION. PERFORMANCE ARTWORK REALLY. ENJOY MY "PIECE".

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I was reading on the bus coming home from work tonight that there is a major push in Congress to now come to the aid of owners and bail them out. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking here, but in bailing out the people who made poor financial decisions for themselves by, and this is no matter how you slice this, getting into a mortgage that they _ultimately_ can't afford, aren't you in reality punishing the people who made the RIGHT decision and not buying when they could barely afford it? It's true if something isn't done that people will be losing their homes, but did they really deserve them in the first place?

 

You could use that argument to summarize most if not all big gov't entitlement programs.

Those who work hard and sacrifice and make the right choices pay for folks who did not.

 

[chucK]

We're not helping 'the poor keep their homes'. We're helping speculating, overconsuming assholes, rich and poor.

 

You guys sound just like the Republicans when they argue that welfare helps only the welfare cheats, who argue that the Iraq War kills only terrorists, that all people our govt. tortures and eavesdrops upon are terrorists, that gun control laws would only make it harder for good people to get guns.

 

I'd wager that any fairly reasonable plan designed to help maxed-out borrowers would help poor people keep their homes AND would help speculating, overconsuming assholes. A good plan will do the best to maximize the former and minimize the latter, but no giant government plan is going to get it perfect.

 

Like we love to yell at the conservative kill-em-all warmongers, it's NOT all black and white.

[StevenSeagal]

HERE TO SHOUT PAST PEOPLE. IT IS SELF EXPRESSION, NOT STANDARD TWO WAY COMMUNICATION. PERFORMANCE ARTWORK REALLY. ENJOY MY "PIECE".

 

HI THERE! [font:Arial Black] [/font] DO YOU HAS

 

GOOD ADVICE FOR BUYING HOME DURING

 

LIBTURD

 

CAUSED ECONOMY

 

COLLAPSE?

Edited March 27, 2008 by StevenSeagal

[chucK]

"Buy when there’s blood in the streets."

 

Lowball, lowball, then lowball some more.

 

You'll probably make a shitload of enemies but eventually be able to fleece some desperate sad-sack out of their entire life savings.

 

Hopefully it will be some overconsuming POS instead of a feeble grandmother or starving single-parent family so you can feel smug rather than shitty. But in any case, the tens of thousands of dollars you will save can buy a pretty damn fine sink (for washing your hands).

[jon]

How exactly are people who made the right decision being punished?

 

The only thing I can think of is by higher taxes (or less services) because govt. money is going toward the dumbshits. In that case, everybody who pays taxes or gets govt. services is being punished. The basic idea, I think, is to prop up the struggling economy so we don't all pay a lot more due to a catastrophic crash (though it could just be election-year pandering). Sort of the reason they bailed out Bear-Stearns, a lot of people had money tied up in Bear-Stearns, and if they went broke those people's money would be tied up for years in bankruptcy procedings (which could be really fucked for retired people using those investments for income).

 

It's counterproductive to think that all of us who didn't make a stupid investment are being punished. It's more like those who did aren't getting punished as much as some would like. There's a difference.

 

How are they being punished? What is going on now is a market correction, pure and simple. Let's list the reasons. 1. People defaulting on their mortgages 2. A ever increasing inventory 3. Credit has tightened 4. Other economic factors like unemployement. Now, let's look at the main reasons for each of these factors. 1. People over-extended themselves. 2. Builders were racing each other before the bubble (remember this word!) burst. 3. Lenders greed has led to a huge crisis and credit has dried up. 4. Unemployment is up in part because consumer and business credit is maxed out or unavailable so less money is being spent.

 

Now.... looking at all these reason what can you tell me? All of them were human errors that were foreseeable and predictable, yet it seems to be a shock to people that this was happening. People and Businesses didn't live within their means, and now themselves and some unfortunate victims are paying the price. This is market correction.. you lived outside the capacity of your ecosystem and now it's time for things to correct. So why should our government come in and "fix" this. The reality is anything they do is temporary and superficial, and we will wind up in a similar mess in a few years unless this is allowed to naturally play out. Those who stayed out of the market are being punished because prices that should be allowed to naturally adjust for what in reality was a artificially created inflation of prices instead will be stabilized by a governmental crutch.

[tvashtarkatena]

OMG Chuckie we feel so guilty now your empathy and wisdom is always such a guiding light thanks for saving us and giving us hope for a better future for all through spray and for single handedly taking all of this so seriously your're the only one we're all so lucky down here to have you on board!!!!

Edited March 27, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[Hugh Conway]

I love how some idiots on this site convince themselves that they actually understand what other people understand.

 

I love people who don't understand irony

[KaskadskyjKozak]

How exactly are people who made the right decision being punished?

 

The only thing I can think of is by higher taxes (or less services) because govt. money is going toward the dumbshits. In that case, everybody who pays taxes or gets govt. services is being punished. The basic idea, I think, is to prop up the struggling economy so we don't all pay a lot more due to a catastrophic crash (though it could just be election-year pandering). Sort of the reason they bailed out Bear-Stearns, a lot of people had money tied up in Bear-Stearns, and if they went broke those people's money would be tied up for years in bankruptcy procedings (which could be really fucked for retired people using those investments for income).

 

It's counterproductive to think that all of us who didn't make a stupid investment are being punished. It's more like those who did aren't getting punished as much as some would like. There's a difference.

 

How are they being punished? What is going on now is a market correction, pure and simple. Let's list the reasons. 1. People defaulting on their mortgages 2. A ever increasing inventory 3. Credit has tightened 4. Other economic factors like unemployement. Now, let's look at the main reasons for each of these factors. 1. People over-extended themselves. 2. Builders were racing each other before the bubble (remember this word!) burst. 3. Lenders greed has led to a huge crisis and credit has dried up. 4. Unemployment is up in part because consumer and business credit is maxed out or unavailable.

 

Now.... looking at all these reason what can you tell me? All of them were human errors that were foreseeable and predictable, yet it seems to be a shock to people that this was happening. People and Businesses didn't live within their means, and now themselves and some unfortunate victims are paying the price. This is market correction.. you lived outside the capacity of your ecosystem and now it's time for things to correct. So why should our government come in and "fix" this. The reality is anything they do is temporary and superficial, and we will wind up in a similar mess in a few years unless this is allowed to naturally play out.

 

Corporate welfare is just an extension of entitlement programs on a macro-scale. The more Americans turn to government as a safety net for all problems the more we can expect to see manifestations of the 'moral hazard' philosophy both from individuals and corporations. The wet slippery slope has iced over.

[tvashtarkatena]

spoken as if you had the capacity to deliver any....

[tomtom]

for all the shits who bitch about homeowners' subsidy for mortgage interest write-off, fuck you.

 

Tell us how you really feel. Don't be shy!

 

She wants the folks who will eventually pay a large percentage of the mortgage interest on purchase of her investment properties and capital gains on sale to go fuck off. Not even willing to offer a reach around.

[Hugh Conway]

for all the shits who bitch about homeowners' subsidy for mortgage interest write-off, fuck you.

 

Tell us how you really feel. Don't be shy!

 

She wants the folks who will eventually pay a large percentage of the mortgage interest on purchase of her investment properties and capital gains on sale to go fuck off. Not even willing to offer a reach around.

 

tax the poor, feed the rich

[chucK]

So why should our government come in and "fix" this. The reality is anything they do is temporary and superficial, and we will wind up in a similar mess in a few years unless this is allowed to naturally play out. Those who stayed out of the market are being punished because prices that should be allowed to naturally adjust for what in reality was a artificially created inflation of prices instead will be stabilized by a governmental crutch.

 

I would think that the government "fix" is not going to make everybody happy happy. The damage is done. People are now aware of the holes in the system. I think a government "fix" may just soften the decline (long term slow sag, versus catastrophic drop). For those itching to buy a house as soon as possible this might be dismaying, but it would be nice if we could avoid all the crazy stuff that might happen with a total implosion.

 

I don't think anyone is going to get terribly punished by a govt. "fix", and they might just be saved from calamity (like the business they work for going under, or their home-downpayment fund that's currently in mutual funds losing 50% of its value). Plus, if this becomes a standard thing, you might just be benefited in the future by the increased stability of your future home investment.

[tvashtarkatena]

There will be no calamity without a government fix. That is simply election year propoganda. The necessary correction that is underway will simply run its course, leaving a healthier, more real economy in it's wake.

 

A government fix will institutionalize subsidies for bad behavior. It would constitute a terrible precedent that would bring us closer to a collapse of our financial system. After all, who's going to believe in a system where rule breakers not only get away with it, but are rewarded?

[chucK]

What are these government fixes you guys are wailing about anyway?

 

Are you upset about Bush's wishy-washy plan to ask bankers to voluntarily freeze ARM resets for a while? That plan will punish banks who took out (or bought) bad loans. It will give over-extended home buyers a bit more time to get their ducks in a row, but ain't gonna bail 'em out forever. I'm sure that will bring us "closer to a collapse of our financial system" .

 

Is there another plan out there that will make all these house-flippers millionaires? Or are you just frothing at the mouth over vague generalities? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[tvashtarkatena]

Yours was a non-question with supplied answers, so why would anyone bother to take it seriously enough to answer it?

[chucK]

Nice dodge.

 

So is it Bush's bailout plan that you fear is going to collapse our economy? If so, I think you're being a bit overdramatic.

 

Or is it another bailout plan/government fix that you fear? You specifically referenced Obama in your first entry. Is his plan that which has your panties in a wad? How exactly is his plan going to collapse our economy?

[olyclimber]

This article comically defines rich people as "those with assets over a million dollars". who doesn't have that sort of coin in their change jar? There needs to be a new definition of rich. The people who bought the 3/4 million dollar home next door just seem like average people to me.

 

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23824209/for/cnbc/

[chucK]

Maybe they're not really rich! Maybe they are merely overextended morons who, with Obama's help, are going to collapse the economy!

[sexual_chocolate]

the house, if not paid for, is a liability on their balance sheet.

[tvashtarkatena]

Nice dodge.

 

So is it Bush's bailout plan that you fear is going to collapse our economy? If so, I think you're being a bit overdramatic.

 

Or is it another bailout plan/government fix that you fear? You specifically referenced Obama in your first entry. Is his plan that which has your panties in a wad? How exactly is his plan going to collapse our economy?

 

First of all you're acting like an ass.

 

Secondly, I previously stated:

 

A government fix will institutionalize subsidies for bad behavior. It would constitute a terrible precedent that would bring us closer to a collapse of our financial system. After all, who's going to believe in a system where rule breakers not only get away with it, but are rewarded?

 

No one has stated that anyone's bail out plan would lead to collapse.

 

The type of bailout I believe would do the most widespread damage would be anything that aids private individuals with mortgage issues, and thus supports bad behavior on a nationwide scale. I don't buy the 'predatory lending' story. Consumers actively sought cheap debt, and lots of it, to fund lifestyles beyond their means. The market happily supplied what they wanted. This does not mean, as some morons here have suggested, that I approve of corporate bailouts either. Having said that, Bear Stearns hardly constitutes a 'bail out'.

 

 

[Recycled]

A better and more common definition of "millionaire" is someone who has over $1m in net assets, excluding their principal residence. Or, in other words, someone who has $1m available to invest, independent of their home.

 

There are more people in this category than many think and the ones I know drive 15 year old cars and live quite modestly. On the other hand, people who live in a $850k-$1m house with 100k equity and owe $ on their cars and credits cards to appear weathly are basically broke and will be the first to fall if things go south. Screw 'em.

[chucK]

First of all you're acting like an ass.

Such a restrained insult! Coming from you it sounds like a compliment.