New to Alpine Rock

[nigeljmcclung]

Hello, I have done a fair amount of mountaineering over the past few years and am just now getting into technical rock climbing. Last week I visited Vertical World and pretty much wasted myself on some 5.9 and 5.10 routes (really, I was only able to get a few pitches in before my hands were very sore).

 

I was wondering if someone with experience in Alpine rock can describe the differences between Alpine rock and gym rock climbing. The alpine rocks routes I will be doing with the Mountaineers are really only up to 5.6, but is 5.6 in the mountains more difficult than 5.6 in the gym? etc.

 

Thank you and your advice will be much appreciated.

 

[JayB]

I'm sure that others will chime in with additional thoughts, but of the many differences that come to mind the foremost (in no particular order) are that alpine rock routes you:

 

-Will be doing routes that feature far more crack climbing than face climbing.

-Will be using traditional rock protection.

-Will (often/probably)be climbing with a pack.

-May encounter loose or poor-quality rock.

-May find yourself in situations where finding the correct route is difficult.

-May find yourself in situations where retreat is difficult or expensive.

-Should have a much greater familiarity with technical ropework than you need to climb safely in the gym before venturing into the mountains.

 

With your background in mountaineering, your probably quite familiar with the rest of the stuff that you'll encounter in the mountains.

 

After you get comfortable in the gym, I'd make learning to lead/place-gear/construct-anchors a priority. After that, start moving on to multi-pitch routes that you can lead comfortably. Then pick a route or two that's way below your top leading grade and give it a go with the kind of pack that you'd take along on the kind of alpine route that you are considering.

 

 

[Reid]

Gym climbing will nearly always emphasize strength over footwork/technique. Gym routes are also sustained. A 5.6 alpine route of multiple pitches could involve less than 1 pitch of actual 5.6 climbing. The 5.6 moves will be interspersed with segments of rock that may require no handwork at all or at the very least will be far less steep than the 5.6 in the gym. If you were able to climb .9/.10 in the gym I wouldn't be concerned about the physical strength needed to get yourself up a multipitch 5.6 outdoors. Technique and footwork is what will get you through that.

[Bug]

He is......

 

 

knowledgable about alpine.

These are all good tips.

 

Add to that, wear a helmet.

 

I also often use my ice ax to glissade steep snow that might end in a cliff. It is fast and can be safe if you are good at it. But then you have another item on your back.

 

Footwear is an issue. Are you comfortable climbing 5.6 in your approach shoes/boots? What will you wear on the descent? More baggage.

 

You have to move fast and efficiently. That is why climbing well below your gym grade is important. But if you get off route, guessing becomes the game.

 

Lastly, you will have the most fun.

 

[chucK]

Don't let getting beat up by gym 5.9's worry you about being able to do an Alpine 5.6. There's almost no relation between the two. The arm and finger strength required for most 5.9's in the gym certainly won't hurt in the mountains, but they're not prerequisite for a 5.6 in Washington.

 

In addition to the strength gains, the gym climbing will help you with body position and balance over holds. Learning to keep the load positioned over your feet is key in all climbing, but may be especially important when carrying a pack.

 

I can almost guarantee you that 5.6 in the mountains is not going to have any sustained steepness, especially one chosen by the Mountaineers for a Basic climb.

 

And, though not being able to do gym climbs doesn't mean you won't be able to do Alpine climbs, the converse is also not true. That is, being able to onsite 5.10 in the gym won't teach you important skills for the mountains like route-finding and rope and gear-work.

 

One other way the gym might help you in terms of climbing with the Mountaineers is if you go on a real crowded night to Vertical World, you can get used to waiting .

[selkirk]

If you want to train in the Gym for Alpine climbing, stay off the big overhangs, unless your climbing seriously hard alpine routes, your time will be better spent working stuff that's less than vertical and thin to develop balance and footwork.

 

And you'll be fine, the intermediate rock climbs are pretty technically mellow. There's the occasional attention getting move (i.e. first pitch of the Cave route on Concord) but for the most part the climbing is pretty easy unless you get on some of the more difficult climbs. There are a few mountie climbs in the 5.8 to 5.9 range and for those you'll want to be solid at 5.9 cragging before you jump on them (Orbit, Outerspace, a route on SEWS whose name escapes me, etc.).

 

good luck, have fun

[sk]

I am not a mountaineer but i do like to climb cracks A LOT!!! spend sime time practicing on single pitch crack climbs to get the feel for the tecnique. that will help toughen you hands and skin up. I have climbed cracks with may begininers and they all complain about the same things.

 

thier feet hurt

and thier skin rips up.

 

even easy cracks are a world of difference from climbing in the gym. It is a totaly different style of climbing that requires you to be able to find the useable flaws in the rock, as well as being able to cam parts of your body into the rock. to climb cracks well you need to be willing to put your hand(and or foot) in a crack, make a fist and accept that if you fall it is your skin and muscle that is keeping you from falling.

 

in the past i have been against taping because it seemed to me that if you had good tecnqhe then you didn't need to tape. however after some cajoling i finaly did tape my hands when climbing harder cracks and i was able to get up on some more dificult climbs.

 

make sure you check out lots of different kinds of crack. you want to be comfortable climbing thin fingers to chimny (i would imagine)

[tomtom]

I was wondering if someone with experience in Alpine rock can describe the differences between Alpine rock and gym rock climbing. The alpine rocks routes I will be doing with the Mountaineers are really only up to 5.6, but is 5.6 in the mountains more difficult than 5.6 in the gym? etc.

 

As Muffy mentioned, climbing in the gym is typically steep face climbing while moderate alpine climbing follows slabby crack systems. At VW-Magnolia, focus on the slabby wall (less than vertical) and routes in corners (dihedrals) where you can practice keeping the weight off your hands and arms. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of good places to practice moderate crack climbing in the gym.

 

The other big difference is exposure. At VW, you're never further than 20 ft from the ground. In the mountains, it can be a bit further. That's just a confidence game.

 

Have fun with it.

[JayB]

Might want to head over to UW rock to practice on the cracks there in addition to the climbing that you do at VW....

[selkirk]

Muffy's right!

Embrace the crack!

 

A lot of new crack climbers would rather make 5.10 moves on the face then 5.7 moves in the crack. That might work cragging but it's a recipe for trouble in the alpine. And no crimping on the edges or doing the "mountaineers pull-apart" (gaston) unless it's absolutely critical.

It's all about the jams, and locks. Learning to wedge a body part in and hang on it

 

 

Oh, and Stemming is the solution to Everything! (ok, 99% of everything).

 

Screw ice, it's time to go crack climbing!

[spotly]

And the holds aren't bolted on outside (except that one in Spokane...or was that glued?!). Sounds comical but after a time in the gym, don't let that first portable hold outside be your reminder to switch modes.

[sk]

Muffy's right!

Embrace the crack!

 

A lot of new crack climbers would rather make 5.10 moves on the face then 5.7 moves in the crack. That might work cragging but it's a recipe for trouble in the alpine. And no crimping on the edges or doing the "mountaineers pull-apart" (gaston) unless it's absolutely critical.

It's all about the jams, and locks. Learning to wedge a body part in and hang on it

 

 

Oh, and Stemming is the solution to Everything! (ok, 99% of everything).

 

Screw ice, it's time to go crack climbing!

 

just thinking about it makes me all tingely in side!!!!!

[RuMR]

Muffy's right!

Embrace the crack!

 

A lot of new crack climbers would rather make 5.10 moves on the face then 5.7 moves in the crack. That might work cragging but it's a recipe for trouble in the alpine. And no crimping on the edges or doing the "mountaineers pull-apart" (gaston) unless it's absolutely critical.

It's all about the jams, and locks. Learning to wedge a body part in and hang on it

 

 

Oh, and Stemming is the solution to Everything! (ok, 99% of everything).

 

Screw ice, it's time to go crack climbing!

I believe the proper term is "Wedge meat and pull"

[RuMR]

Don't let getting beat up by gym 5.9's worry you about being able to do an Alpine 5.6. There's almost no relation between the two. The arm and finger strength required for most 5.9's in the gym certainly won't hurt in the mountains, but they're not prerequisite for a 5.6 in Washington.

In addition to the strength gains, the gym climbing will help you with body position and balance over holds. Learning to keep the load positioned over your feet is key in all climbing, but may be especially important when carrying a pack.

 

I can almost guarantee you that 5.6 in the mountains is not going to have any sustained steepness, especially one chosen by the Mountaineers for a Basic climb.

 

And, though not being able to do gym climbs doesn't mean you won't be able to do Alpine climbs, the converse is also not true. That is, being able to onsite 5.10 in the gym won't teach you important skills for the mountains like route-finding and rope and gear-work.

 

One other way the gym might help you in terms of climbing with the Mountaineers is if you go on a real crowded night to Vertical World, you can get used to waiting .

 

what a joke...gym 5.9's require NO arm/finger strength...only feet...

[nigeljmcclung]

Wow! Thanks so much for the replies, I don't even know where to begin! I will focus on developing necessary skills to climb cracks successfully. Maybe I will stop by UW's gym once or twice to simulate that. I really appreciate the advice, I hope it helps me in my pursuit to develop Alpine rock skills.

[Bug]

Don't let getting beat up by gym 5.9's worry you about being able to do an Alpine 5.6. There's almost no relation between the two. The arm and finger strength required for most 5.9's in the gym certainly won't hurt in the mountains, but they're not prerequisite for a 5.6 in Washington.

In addition to the strength gains, the gym climbing will help you with body position and balance over holds. Learning to keep the load positioned over your feet is key in all climbing, but may be especially important when carrying a pack.

 

I can almost guarantee you that 5.6 in the mountains is not going to have any sustained steepness, especially one chosen by the Mountaineers for a Basic climb.

 

And, though not being able to do gym climbs doesn't mean you won't be able to do Alpine climbs, the converse is also not true. That is, being able to onsite 5.10 in the gym won't teach you important skills for the mountains like route-finding and rope and gear-work.

 

One other way the gym might help you in terms of climbing with the Mountaineers is if you go on a real crowded night to Vertical World, you can get used to waiting .

 

what a joke...gym 5.9's require NO arm/finger strength...only feet...

True with good technique.

False for a newbie who does not yet have the technique down.

[Toast]

Wow! Thanks so much for the replies, I don't even know where to begin! I will focus on developing necessary skills to climb cracks successfully. Maybe I will stop by UW's gym once or twice to simulate that. I really appreciate the advice, I hope it helps me in my pursuit to develop Alpine rock skills.

 

Not UW Gym. UW Rock, silly. It's at the mouth of Montlake Cut.