Mountain Loop Fiasco

[cfire]

My 14 year old son was invited by a friend and family to go on snowshoeing hike today up the mountain loop highway. Here's the story I get from him and the parents he was with when he gets back...

 

They wanted to go up around the ice caves, but the road is closed at the red bridge(Pilchuk) due to snow so they decide to go up to Heather Lake via the Pilchuk road. They park on the side of the road at the road closure along with several other cars at the red bridge on the side of the road and head up the pilchuk road. They hike to Heather Lake, taking quite awhile as they are a party of 9 that includes 6 kids ranging in age from 6-14. They get there, have a nice lunch and head back down.

 

As they reach the road, they notice their car on a towtruck!! They race down to find 3 towtrucks with cars loaded ready to go, their's being one of them. There is a Sno. Co Sheriff there directing the towtrucks. They ask what is going on and he states that the are parked illegally and will be towed. They plead that there is no indication that the side of the road is no parking, but the dude isnn't listening and says that their car is officially impounded since it's on the hook and they can get it off by paying the $193. They are there with cold hungry kids, so they pay the fine and get their car unloaded while the towtruck driver tells them thet they really didn't want to do this, but the Sheriff insisted. They ask the sheriff where they were supposed to park and he states back at the ranger station in Verlot??

 

The parents tell me that there were 18 cars at the sight and they had already towed 8. They said that they talked to a couple of party's at the lake that were spending the night, so they have the special treat of coming back in the morning cold as hell to the road/trailhead tomorrow and finding their car gone. It's about a mile back to the ranger station from where they parked, and if that's closed then they get a much longer walk back to the Mountain store in Verlot, which doesn't mean they actually get help.

 

There were other folks up there with kids as well and I hope they still had a car up there when they got back. I'm having a hard time figuring out the logic towing cars in this instance. If the Tool had a real problem with the cars there on the side of the road, write a ticket and be happy that you made the county some cash. The road was not blocked. There were no signs stating no parking, but a ticket would be better than stranding people on the Mountain Loop Highway when the temps are going to be in the 20's tonight. They have no way of getting their money back from the tow company even if they fight it, and they were too scared to ask if they were getting a ticket in the mail, which they might.

 

These folks are the nicest people and can't really afford this, but they got screwed as far as I can figure. This was a special trip for them as they don't get out much and they even went to Joe's and rented snowshoes for their kids.

 

Is there some precedent to this kind of action??

[catbirdseat]

Damn, that's really awful. Where the cars parked right on Mountain Loop Highway? Were they blocking the snow plow?

[cfire]

They were on the mountain loop at the road closed sign but pulled off the road on the shoulder, along with close to 20 other cars. The plow had gone by during the day, so it wasn't being blocked.

 

 

[ASmith]

Seems to me that this is unlawfull endangerment. I would call the paper, get the public involved and then call the people elected sheriff and let him know how you all feel.

 

I have to wonder what would happen is someone (especially a child) happen to freeze to death or have an exposure event as a result of being stranded in the snow?

[AlpineK]

Cops do some good things, but there's a reason they're called Pigs

 

No matter if their rules are right or wrong a ticket would have been 10,000 times better then towing the vehicles given the weather.

[Bug]

Wasn't there a news reporter who used to monitor this site?

 

I sent this post to Newstips.

 

This wrong. Leaving people srtanded is dangerous.

[TREETOAD]

Sheriffs are elected? Do they have to have any education in law of any kind?

[MarkMcJizzy]

Sheriffs are elected? Do they have to have any education in law of any kind?

 

No, but in Snohomish Co, both outgoing Sheriff Rick Bart, and especially new Sheriff John Lovick are very well qualified.

 

Would you vote for a County Auditor or Treasurer who wasn't a CPA? Voters (often) have common sense

[TREETOAD]

So you could, in effect become sheriff by acclimation?

[mountainmandoug]

There are some state, county, and federal laws about when one can park along the road and when one can't. Usually they amount to that it's legal to park on the road if you do not block traffic and there are no signs prohibiting it. It is possible that deputies involved could have actually been illegal in enforcing an un-signed no parking area. Even if they had a foot to stand on legally I do think that towing people's cars in that circumstance could be argued to be reckless endangerment.

 

One of the people involved could probably talk to a lawyer and sue the county. Possibly someone could talk to the prosecuting attorney's office about charging the deputy with reckless endangerment. That would be sure to shake things up.

 

If you're friends are cited, it might be possible to talk to a civil defense attorney at no charge. It seems to me that probably this could be addressed through legal channels and most likely the people who's vehicle's have been towed could get damages paid by the county to cover the cost of the impound.

 

If all that doesn't work, by all means raise hue and cry in the media (something I'm not a big fan of because of all of the inaccuracy involved), talk to your state legislators (who do love to get involved in stuff like this, they actually don't have a lot to do otherwise when the legislature is not in session), and do your best to un-elect the Sheriff next election. Make sure he knows why. Law enforcement are not tasked with endangering the lives of the public and they must be held accountable if they do so.

 

That's my two cents and I hope things get resolved. Keep us posted on how it goes.

[needtoclimb]

Cops do some good things, but there's a reason they're called Pigs

 

Ah yes, another cop-bashing thread by the ignorant. You know, yesterday I went out to eat, and the waiter was rude to me. So now I hate all waiters.

 

This one deputy was making a very bad judgement call. Please direct anger towards him, not towards law enforcement in general.

 

Being in law enforcement, I am going to give you real advice on what to do, not this "I saw it on TV" advice that so many people want to give.

 

What he was doing was technically legal, but very bad judgement and common sense. At the scene his name should have been taken. (It will be on the tow paperwork if you got it.) You should have asked for his supervisor to respond to the scene and that you want to make a complaint at that time.

 

Being that this is a day later, and you may or may not have his name: do this. Call the snohomish county sheriff office that patrols that area. Ask for a sergeant or lieutenant. Now here is the hard part; calmly, truthfully and respectfully explain what happened and why towing the cars was a bad idea.

 

To stop anyone from responding stating "I pay their salary, I should be able to be rude and crass and they still listen to me," I will cut that off now. Being human, if you start lying (easy to spot) or being rude or use comments like "i pay your salary," You will simply make the supervisor you are talking to tune you out, thinking you are blowing things way out of proportion. By talking calmly and respectfully, you sound like a sane average citizen and will be listened to.

 

After talking to a supervisor, write a letter and call the actual Sheriff's office. You won't speak to the Sheriff, but your communication will get to him.

 

After that, call and write to the Snohomish Executive (the equivalent of Ron Sims.)

 

All this will get the message across that towing the cars is not right. Yes, it is a lot of work, but bitching will not change anything, while taking the effort to do these things will.

 

Hope this will help.

Edited January 1, 2008 by needtoclimb

[billcoe]

Good to see such good advice throughout this thread. 1 more salient point, the reason they should do this is not as much for themselves to feel better, although they will, but to prevent this kind of issue from happening to the next poor souls, who may not be so lucky if they should get to where their car use to be in a blizzard late at night and not make the hike (or get hit by a car walking) to the ranger station.

 

Good luck!

[MarkMcJizzy]

 

 

One of the people involved could probably talk to a lawyer and sue the county

For what? Legally towing vehicles? Where are the damages?

 

 

Possibly someone could talk to the prosecuting attorney's office about charging the deputy with reckless endangerment.

Fat chance

 

 

 

and do your best to un-elect the Sheriff next election. Make sure he knows why

Why? Yesterdays Sheriff is different than today's Sheriff

 

Don't listen to Doug, and his hysterical screaming. Talk to the new Sheriff, the FS, and the County. Tell them the situation, and the ramifications of towing. I'm sure the situation will be dealt with quickly and professionally

[needtoclimb]

One of the people involved could probably talk to a lawyer and sue the county. Possibly someone could talk to the prosecuting attorney's office about charging the deputy with reckless endangerment. That would be sure to shake things up.

 

This won't work. Prosecutors take cases from law enforcement, not from average citizen. If they did, think of how many calls they would get from people stating my neighbour is trespassing, my mom ate my doughnut, etc, etc. The prosecuting office will tell you to call the Sheriff.

 

If you're friends are cited, it might be possible to talk to a civil defense attorney at no charge. It seems to me that probably this could be addressed through legal channels and most likely the people who's vehicle's have been towed could get damages paid by the county to cover the cost of the impound.

 

 

Close Mountainmandoug. What you do is contest the towing. This requires a little research and setting up a court date, then responding and stating why the tow was illegal. Problem here is that the tow was not illegal. A judge must follow the law, and can't reimburse you for something the county did legally. You may win if you argue there were no signs and you were safely off the road, but it is a toss up.

 

 

If all that doesn't work, by all means raise hue and cry in the media (something I'm not a big fan of because of all of the inaccuracy involved), talk to your state legislators (who do love to get involved in stuff like this, they actually don't have a lot to do otherwise when the legislature is not in session), and do your best to un-elect the Sheriff next election. Make sure he knows why. Law enforcement are not tasked with endangering the lives of the public and they must be held accountable if they do so.

 

I agree that the media is so often wrong that when I read the paper I can only believe half of what they say. Just read their articles about lost climbers and hikers, and see how bad their stories are. Anyway, calling a legislature might work, but you are going way too high over the deputies head, and it might never filter down to him. Start at one level above the deputy and work up. For the Sheriff to know why you are voting against him, you need to tell him. Thus, write that letter and call him.

 

One more thought. Remember that cops are humans too, and sometimes they make stupid mistakes. If a cop makes a mistake, the public cries for his firing. Have any of you ever made a mistake? Did you have the public shouting for your firing? Probably not.

[jfreeburg]

Don't contact your state legislator. I work for one and we get requests for help all the time. We can do some stuff, but only if it relates to a state agency. Since it was the county sheriff that you had a problem with, contact your Snohomish County councilperson. They can request that the sheriff's office look into the situation and see if all laws were properly followed but they can't ask the sheriff to go easy on you.

 

 

 

[Fairweather]

Don't contact your state legislator. I work for one and we get requests for help all the time. We can do some stuff, but only if it relates to a state agency.

 

 

????Are you serious????

[catbirdseat]

The dude's serious. He isn't making it up.

[Fairweather]

I'm curious who he works for. I've known several state reps, and my now-retired state senator lives just a few houses down the street. I can assure you that none of them would dismiss a citizen issue within their district simply because it wasn't tied directly to a "state agency". That;s just plain ridiculous. IMO, what jfree is referring to is called l-a-z-y government. The very least a state rep could do is pick up the phone and ask a few questions.

[jfreeburg]

I work for Senator Paull Shin - but this is not a state deal. If someone calls the office with a non-state deal, I'll call the appropriate person at the office they have a problem with and have them deal with it. It's not passing the buck, it's going to the source and being efficient.

 

If the laws need to be changed, then we may step in. Otherwise, this is a local issue best dealt with by local elected officials, not state legislators. Furthermore, if they want to bring in a lawyer and sue the sheriff's office, elected officials can't get involved in legal issues - it's called checks and balances.

 

I think getting the media involved may be a good way to find some resolution. The inaccuracies that CC'ers love to cite all the time are almost always small and relatively insignificant to the general public. The media isn't always right but they do a good enough job to get some attention to an issue when its needed.

[Fairweather]

On three occasions I have felt compelled to contact my state reps on the personal level. On all three of these occasions I received a reply letter or email directly from them in short order. (Then Rep - now Senator Mike Carrell, former Rep Gigi Talcott, and former Senator Shirley Winsley) I can assure you that every state rep I've dealt with was concerned with anything happening in their district regardless of their ability to affect change. If a representative of the people is willing to get bogged down in legal minutia in lieu of good old fashioned persuasion, then maybe they deserve replacement at the next election.

 

Not trying to bash on your post or your employer, but I was just taken aback by your comment.

[jfreeburg]

I guess it's all about preferences. My boss would prefer to work on issues that he can have an impact on. He doesn't believe in grandstanding.

 

By your logic, perhaps they should contact Senator Cantwell or Murray, or heck President Bush.

 

I'm just saying, contact the right person and you are more likely to get the result you are looking for.

[SemoreJugs]

Cops do some good things, but there's a reason they're called Pigs

 

Ah yes, another cop-bashing thread by the ignorant. You know, yesterday I went out to eat, and the waiter was rude to me. So now I hate all waiters.

 

This one deputy was making a very bad judgement call. Please direct anger towards him, not towards law enforcement in general.

 

Being in law enforcement, I am going to give you real advice on what to do, not this "I saw it on TV" advice that so many people want to give.

 

What he was doing was technically legal, but very bad judgement and common sense. At the scene his name should have been taken. (It will be on the tow paperwork if you got it.) You should have asked for his supervisor to respond to the scene and that you want to make a complaint at that time.

 

Being that this is a day later, and you may or may not have his name: do this. Call the snohomish county sheriff office that patrols that area. Ask for a sergeant or lieutenant. Now here is the hard part; calmly, truthfully and respectfully explain what happened and why towing the cars was a bad idea.

 

To stop anyone from responding stating "I pay their salary, I should be able to be rude and crass and they still listen to me," I will cut that off now. Being human, if you start lying (easy to spot) or being rude or use comments like "i pay your salary," You will simply make the supervisor you are talking to tune you out, thinking you are blowing things way out of proportion. By talking calmly and respectfully, you sound like a sane average citizen and will be listened to.

 

After talking to a supervisor, write a letter and call the actual Sheriff's office. You won't speak to the Sheriff, but your communication will get to him.

 

After that, call and write to the Snohomish Executive (the equivalent of Ron Sims.)

 

All this will get the message across that towing the cars is not right. Yes, it is a lot of work, but bitching will not change anything, while taking the effort to do these things will.

 

Hope this will help.

 

Dear Cop,

 

It has been my experience that roughly 3 out of 5 cops are pricks at the very least. The personality trait is often required for the job. The problem is that it is a fine line between enforcing the law, justice, and overstepping the police's appointed authority.

 

Would you agree with me that cops are basically judges with guns that must make a ruling in real-time?

 

I've experienced cops treating me with respect and compassion, and then I've experienced the complete opposite, regardless of my own behavior. The main problem in my mind is a lack of oversight. We don't have a good system to police the police. The officers who abuse their authority rarely face repercussions unless the press becomes involved. Cops protect their own, and there is little interest to weed out the bad seeds rather than "keeping things quiet."

 

Am I off here?

[StevenSeagal]

Anyone who wears the uniform of the police department or the military obviously loves the country more than you do. You should never question their motives or actions. In fact, doing so actually means that you hate America.

 

Dummy.

 

[minx]

wow- all this from a thread about situation involving a tow truck and tickets.

[lancegranite]

Same story on US2 at Stevens pass, many cars have been towed due to parking on the highway shoulder.

SIDE NOTE:

We got hasseled by the man yesterday for hiking back to the area on the hwy.

Written warnings for everyone, it almost wiped the stupid smile off my face.

If you must tour, hike back to the area on the 10 foot high shoulder of the road.