Denali Expedition 2008 - Looking for 10-12 member

[tvashtarkatena]

Can I please have a summary?

 

1.) Native Americans.

2.) ACLU

3.) Boy Scouts

4.) Evolution

 

To the tune of the familiar Christmas (oh am I allowed to say that?) carol “Let It Snow”,

 

All together now please, and a one, and a two, Let it spray, let it spray, let it spray…..

 

What about boy scout climb instruction, or was that just spray?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

See, I was right, you HATE God. Deny it all you want.

 

As for the last sentence - it describes YOU perfectly.

 

 

Can't hate what you don't believe in, amigo. Sorry to dissappoint.

 

 

You believe in Him, but deny it, and for some reason hate Him for creating you and the world as it is.

 

 

[pup_on_the_mountain]

It would be one thing if creationists or ID people had an alternative explanations that were consistent with the factual evidence and the laws of physics

 

The discussion on this thread has been focused on, as I interpret, Christianity v/s atheism, and also on evolution v/s creationism/ID as proposed by folks in the US or West. I won't be too off if I call it creationism/ID as proposed by Christians. At the same time, it might be interesting to note that there are other schools of philosophy, especially from the East, whose ideas of design might be way different from what we have been discussing (i.e., from the Bible), and might even have parallels to evolution! I'll throw out an interesting example, from Hinduism. I must admit beforehand, though, that I'm only familiar with a minute fraction of what is a humungous body of philosophy, which is Hinduism. I'm not shoving anything down your throat here, nor am I pointing a (or the) way. As part of my work, I do research in computational biology (DNA, protein structure, mutations, evolutionary trees etc.). All I want to say is that there are some really interesting streams of philosophy when it comes to creationism v/s evolution. Spray on bitches .

 

 

Unlike most other religions, Hinduism does not have a single prophet/messiah or a single book of revelation. There are several sages and several books of revelation which have contributed to the majestic river of Hinduism. And there are numerous gods that are worshipped. Hinduism considers each individual as unique, and hence does not prescribe a common path to everybody, it rather encourages each individual to explore a path which is the most suitable to him/her. Still, there are three broad categories of human nature, and three corresponding paths for upliftment - based on (as interpreted in layman terms) devotion, intellect, and work/activity. According to Hinduism, individuals who fall in the last two categories (intellect and activity) may even appear atheistic. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (JCI religions) on the other hand, prescribe only the first option of devotion, and hence people who fall under the other two categories are not welcomed. One of the most quoted principles of Hinduism (as given in the book Bhagavat Gita) is "do your duty, do not think about the rewards". There is absolutely no implication in this principle that you must believe in God!

 

The JCI religions all say that individuals go either to heaven or hell once they die. Hinduism, on the other hand, considers that each individual is in a process of evolution which is akin to Darwinian evolution. However, according to this view, beings evolve and adopt a body according to their past actions, and which is suitable for fulfilling their desires. Admittedly, human body is suitable for the most evolved beings, and here onwards, with no further evolution of body form, one has to make a conscious effort for further evolution and take the final jump to perfection. When one becomes qualified for the last stage, it is the 'cosmic' which descends onto the individual and this completely transforms him/her. Kabir (a famous 15th century poet) describes it as "getting in of the sea in a droplet". Till then beings have to undergo the repeated cycle of birth and death.

 

Hindus' simile of the relation between creator and creation is that between a dancer and the dance and not that between a sculptor and his sculpture, as is done in JCI religions. This is to emphasize that the creator is embedded in its creation and is not separate somewhere. Unlike the declaration of an individual to be the 'only' son of God, Hinduism calls all human beings, and in fact, all living beings, as 'the children of Immortality'.

 

On the other hand, perhaps the most celebrated philosophy coming from Hindiusm is that of 'Advaidta', which translates to "not two". It is interesting to note that this idea, in various forms, can be found in the philosophy of most other religions, including JCI. At the same time, Hinduism is one of the oldest religions. The gist is that "only God is truth and the concept of world is a false mental projection". Equivalently, "there is no heaven or hell or liberation, nothing but the Self in this expanded cosmic consciousness"! . Naturally, to many people Hinduism does not appear to be coherent and homogeneous.

 

In the face of 'Advaitha', what is the deal with the numerous Gods worshipped by Hindus? Well, one explanation is that the concept of Advaita is so profound and deep, that its beyond the reach and comprehension of most common people. Hence, they created separate Gods for each function, such as wealth, stength, knowledge, war, art, etc. People worship the appropriate God, according to their choice or profession.

 

 

 

[sexual_chocolate]

 

when someone speaks about intelligent design in a species-creationist sense, human tails and terrible birth defects are entirely germane.

as witnessed by the response i received. what does a fundamentalist do when faced with a question that so obviously, to a rational player, negates the existence of a compassionate caring design/build contractor?

 

Well, here's where your germane argument becomes extinct. VH and his brand of Biblical literalists DON'T believe in a compassionate or caring God. Their God fucks over all of humanity over all time because the the mistake of one couple, sends perfectly good humans to the firey lake because of one little sin, and doesn't give two shits about how you treat other people as long as you kiss His all powerful ass, even after a life full of fucking others over. "Oh, hey, I'm sorry about all that, Lord. Your my one, true Savior now". Their God is, as I've already stated, a complete and utter narcissistic, sadistic asshole.

 

So your baby was born without a brain? Blame Adam and Eve, bitch! Your whole city just got nuked? Blame Adam and Eve, bitch! You've got worms crawling out of your ass? BAAEB! Don't blame your Loving God, just because He made up all these fucked up rules that were destined to be broken right away and the draconian consequences that come with most minor infraction! Don't blame a God that requires only PERFECTION (nothing fucked up about that, no, nothing at all).

 

Of course, this fucked up religion's followers play the same 'blame somebody else' game. "Hey, I'm not discriminated against gays. Some of my best friends are 'struggling' with being gay. I'm not against science, but I'm not allowed to believe in it. I'm not against the Constitution, but I'm required to do everything I can to violate it. I respect you, but I'm required to impose my beliefs on you, because they're the only ones that are right. Got a problem with that? Blame God."

 

Yeah, OK. You could choose to subscribe to a more mellow form of Christianity; there are plenty of sects out there that don't discriminate against gays, and you can still get to Heaven without being a complete asshole...but you chose this one, fella.

 

So who's the asshole? God?

 

For an atheist, the answer here is self evident.

 

 

omigawd you ramble on like a 42D! and you tangentalize like one! duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!

 

ok first of all, i had no germane "argument", but germane points. clear your head of those martinis.

 

but you did tangentalize nicely, and yes i agree with your points, no matter how irrelevant to my original questions to vh.

[sexual_chocolate]

How does a person make sure they will not be subjected to this kind of abuse/spray? Do they have to completely stay off cc.com? Stay completely off line? What do you think Minx?

 

i think keeping the original post in its designated thread without spray was correct, as was throwing the predictable mutation into spray (he doesn't have to acknowledge the mutation, which would actually dovetail nicely with his fundie beliefs).

So online it's OK to talk about some one behind their back?

Or anywhere?

 

ummm, bug? hello? it would be his choice. he needn't expose himself to the heretics to chekc on his original posts.

 

btw, i was offline for a minute, so i think you were talking behind my back.

[tvashtarkatena]

You believe in Him, but deny it, and for some reason hate Him for creating you and the world as it is.

 

 

Damn! I've been found out! Proof Positive: The Denier caught in the act of hating God for creating me and the world as it is (black hood worn for emphasis)

Edited December 20, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[ericb]

Oh for christ's sake would you all just shut up.

 

Actually, it is for Christ's sake that some of continue to argue...ironically

[STP]

Darwin envisaged one species slowly changing into a new one, which then changed into another one, until finally not just new species belonging to the same genus were produced, but new genera, families, orders, classes, phyla, and ultimately kingdoms of organisms evolved. The fossil record demolishes this model of ‘phyletic gradualism’.

 

Not bad, but it's merely a refinement of a theory. It's what scientists do. And yes, there are some troubling questions but they don't negate the evolution as a theory.

 

The fossil record is like a book with pages ripped outta it. So it's incomplete. Pssft! There are many lines of evidence that substantiate evolution, for instance, here: Study, in a First, Explains Evolution's Molecular Advance.

 

Furthermore, Gould understood that critics of evolution would seize upon his ideas to attack evolution but Gould was a great investigator in that he did acknowledge these questions and sought active inquiry into answering these questions. Have you read It's a Wonderful Life?

 

When you're talking about phyla, you're essentially talking about major body plans. Each phylum is characterized by a particular body structure that distinguishes it from another. Note that you see the apparently sudden appearance of the major phyla in the fossil record. By apparently, I mean you see what you get from the fossil record. In the Burgess Shale of BC, you see the exquisite preservation of soft-bodied organisms. This is very rare, most times decomposition obliterates the organism--that's one mechanism for a missing page, erosion of sed rx is another. Gould's point was that an unassuming precursor to the vertebrates was present the Burgess. Arrive at your own conclusion.

 

I'm no expert but one could assume that there are other mechanisms at work such as heterochrony or changes in developmental timing. I could image a mass change in the ontogeny of the individuals in a population, because who the hell are the mutations gonna mate with? You can't just have one mutation.

[tvashtarkatena]

 

 

omigawd you ramble on like a 42D! and you tangentalize like one! duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!

 

ok first of all, i had no germane "argument", but germane points. clear your head of those martinis.

 

but you did tangentalize nicely, and yes i agree with your points, no matter how irrelevant to my original questions to vh.

 

Once again, sense, we arrive at the Universe's sole, inviolable Truth: I'm right and therefore you must be wrong.

 

See? No rambling.

 

I wish I could have a martini, but my new ice climbing religion forbids it.

Edited December 20, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[aksimon]

To vertical hiker,

 

I think I met a couple of your fellow climbers at KBC in 2007. Nice guys.....Gratz on your %80 summit success rate.

25 pages. Holy #$!*, I guess there are a lot of people with idle time at their disposal. If climbers are looking for "peace and solitude" in camp, they might want to look at other objectives within the Alaska Range.

 

 

 

 

 

[sexual_chocolate]

It would be one thing if creationists or ID people had an alternative explanations that were consistent with the factual evidence and the laws of physics

 

The discussion on this thread has been focused on, as I interpret, Christianity v/s atheism, and also on evolution v/s creationism/ID as proposed by folks in the US or West. I won't be too off if I call it creationism/ID as proposed by Christians. At the same time, it might be interesting to note that there are other schools of philosophy, especially from the East, whose ideas of design might be way different from what we have been discussing (i.e., from the Bible), and might even have parallels to evolution! I'll throw out an interesting example, from Hinduism. I must admit beforehand, though, that I'm only familiar with a minute fraction of what is a humungous body of philosophy, which is Hinduism. I'm not shoving anything down your throat here, nor am I pointing a (or the) way. As part of my work, I do research in computational biology (DNA, protein structure, mutations, evolutionary trees etc.). All I want to say is that there are some really interesting streams of philosophy when it comes to creationism v/s evolution. Spray on bitches .

 

 

Unlike most other religions, Hinduism does not have a single prophet/messiah or a single book of revelation. There are several sages and several books of revelation which have contributed to the majestic river of Hinduism. And there are numerous gods that are worshipped. Hinduism considers each individual as unique, and hence does not prescribe a common path to everybody, it rather encourages each individual to explore a path which is the most suitable to him/her. Still, there are three broad categories of human nature, and three corresponding paths for upliftment - based on (as interpreted in layman terms) devotion, intellect, and work/activity. According to Hinduism, individuals who fall in the last two categories (intellect and activity) may even appear atheistic. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (JCI religions) on the other hand, prescribe only the first option of devotion, and hence people who fall under the other two categories are not welcomed. One of the most quoted principles of Hinduism (as given in the book Bhagavat Gita) is "do your duty, do not think about the rewards". There is absolutely no implication in this principle that you must believe in God!

 

The JCI religions all say that individuals go either to heaven or hell once they die. Hinduism, on the other hand, considers that each individual is in a process of evolution which is akin to Darwinian evolution. However, according to this view, beings evolve and adopt a body according to their past actions, and which is suitable for fulfilling their desires. Admittedly, human body is suitable for the most evolved beings, and here onwards, with no further evolution of body form, one has to make a conscious effort for further evolution and take the final jump to perfection. When one becomes qualified for the last stage, it is the 'cosmic' which descends onto the individual and this completely transforms him/her. Kabir (a famous 15th century poet) describes it as "getting in of the sea in a droplet". Till then beings have to undergo the repeated cycle of birth and death.

 

Hindus' simile of the relation between creator and creation is that between a dancer and the dance and not that between a sculptor and his sculpture, as is done in JCI religions. This is to emphasize that the creator is embedded in its creation and is not separate somewhere. Unlike the declaration of an individual to be the 'only' son of God, Hinduism calls all human beings, and in fact, all living beings, as 'the children of Immortality'.

 

On the other hand, perhaps the most celebrated philosophy coming from Hindiusm is that of 'Advaidta', which translates to "not two". It is interesting to note that this idea, in various forms, can be found in the philosophy of most other religions, including JCI. At the same time, Hinduism is one of the oldest religions. The gist is that "only God is truth and the concept of world is a false mental projection". Equivalently, "there is no heaven or hell or liberation, nothing but the Self in this expanded cosmic consciousness"! . Naturally, to many people Hinduism does not appear to be coherent and homogeneous.

 

In the face of 'Advaitha', what is the deal with the numerous Gods worshipped by Hindus? Well, one explanation is that the concept of Advaita is so profound and deep, that its beyond the reach and comprehension of most common people. Hence, they created separate Gods for each function, such as wealth, stength, knowledge, war, art, etc. People worship the appropriate God, according to their choice or profession.

 

 

 

correct me if i'm wrong, but i think an aspect of hindu cosmology shows the universe expanding and then collapsing upon itself over and over and over again (akin to the big bang (if we find the missing matter!)).

[ClimbingPanther]

this thread... so hot right now

 

[Seahawks]

 

when someone speaks about intelligent design in a species-creationist sense, human tails and terrible birth defects are entirely germane.

as witnessed by the response i received. what does a fundamentalist do when faced with a question that so obviously, to a rational player, negates the existence of a compassionate caring design/build contractor?

 

Well, here's where your germane argument becomes extinct. VH and his brand of Biblical literalists DON'T believe in a compassionate or caring God. Their God fucks over all of humanity over all time because the the mistake of one couple, sends perfectly good humans to the firey lake because of one little sin, and doesn't give two shits about how you treat other people as long as you kiss His all powerful ass, even after a life full of fucking others over. "Oh, hey, I'm sorry about all that, Lord. Your my one, true Savior now". Their God is, as I've already stated, a complete and utter narcissistic, sadistic asshole.

 

So your baby was born without a brain? Blame Adam and Eve, bitch! Your whole city just got nuked? Blame Adam and Eve, bitch! You've got worms crawling out of your ass? BAAEB! Don't blame your Loving God, just because He made up all these fucked up rules that were destined to be broken right away and the draconian consequences that come with most minor infraction! Don't blame a God that requires only PERFECTION (nothing fucked up about that, no, nothing at all).

 

Of course, this fucked up religion's followers play the same 'blame somebody else' game. "Hey, I'm not discriminated against gays. Some of my best friends are 'struggling' with being gay. I'm not against science, but I'm not allowed to believe in it. I'm not against the Constitution, but I'm required to do everything I can to violate it. I respect you, but I'm required to impose my beliefs on you, because they're the only ones that are right. Got a problem with that? Blame God."

 

Yeah, OK. You could choose to subscribe to a more mellow form of Christianity; there are plenty of sects out there that don't discriminate against gays, and you can still get to Heaven without being a complete asshole...but you chose this one, fella.

 

So who's the asshole? God?

 

For an atheist, the answer here is self evident.

 

Wow. I don't think God wanted this world the way it was. God gave man free choice. He could have created robots and made everything perfect. What fellowship is that? He even gave the angels the same free choice. The devil (lucifer) who was the leader of all angels and the best and most beautiful became prideful and decided he wanted to be God himself. A battle happened heaven and Satan was cast out. As revenge for being cast out of God presents he went after God creation to strike back at his most prized creation. God character can not tolerate sin and thus can not be around it. So he had a couple choices. Destroy what he loved or turn it over to the devil and give humans a way to reconcile themselve freely to him. Becuase he didn't want any to perish he turned it over and offered himself to death on a cross for our sins so we can be sin free and be reconciled again.

 

So tails and such you want to blame on God and say he an evil person becuase of this is crap. He requires perfection, you say that crap. Funny thing is he gave you an easy way to be perfect in his eyes and you don't have to do anything to get it but beleive that God himself hung on a cross to take away your sins so you are perfect. Pretty easy.

 

He gave you choice. Enough to judge you on later. You call that crap well he made you and the rules. and wether you choice to beleive or not will be someday be subject to the rules.

 

Gays can go to heaven just as much as the next person. I have my struggles with other sins does that mean I don't go?? Of course not.

 

 

[STP]

Yes, that would be the Multiple Orgasm theory as described in the long lost companion book to the Kama Sutra. As above, so below.

[Dechristo]

Well, here's where your germane argument becomes extinct. VH and his brand of Biblical literalists DON'T believe in a compassionate or caring God. Their God fucks over all of humanity over all time because the the mistake of one couple, sends perfectly good humans to the firey lake because of one little sin, and doesn't give two shits about how you treat other people as long as you kiss His all powerful ass, even after a life full of fucking others over. "Oh, hey, I'm sorry about all that, Lord. Your my one, true Savior now". Their God is, as I've already stated, a complete and utter narcissistic, sadistic asshole.

 

So your baby was born without a brain? Blame Adam and Eve, bitch! Your whole city just got nuked? Blame Adam and Eve, bitch! You've got worms crawling out of your ass? BAAEB! Don't blame your Loving God, just because He made up all these fucked up rules that were destined to be broken right away and the draconian consequences that come with most minor infraction! Don't blame a God that requires only PERFECTION (nothing fucked up about that, no, nothing at all).

 

Of course, this fucked up religion's followers play the same 'blame somebody else' game. "Hey, I'm not discriminated against gays. Some of my best friends are 'struggling' with being gay. I'm not against science, but I'm not allowed to believe in it. I'm not against the Constitution, but I'm required to do everything I can to violate it. I respect you, but I'm required to impose my beliefs on you, because they're the only ones that are right. Got a problem with that? Blame God."

 

Yeah, OK. You could choose to subscribe to a more mellow form of Christianity; there are plenty of sects out there that don't discriminate against gays, and you can still get to Heaven without being a complete asshole...but you chose this one, fella.

 

So who's the asshole? God?

 

For an atheist, the answer here is self evident.

 

You must lay down the "fault"-finding game, Ass-hopper.

 

omigawd you ramble on like a 42D! and you tangentalize like one! duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!

 

...but you did tangentalize nicely,...

 

God gave him the gift.

 

 

Now, I've got to go fifteen pages back to catch up on this year's "God Eats Climbers on Mt. Hood" thread.

[billcoe]

You want to talk about evolution? Look what happened to this topic! It started with a sincere guy advertising for climbing team-mates and DEVOLVED into a bunch of anti-religious ranting and intolerance by a bunch of his fellow "climbers".

 

I see my suspicions that it will evolve into an anti-bolt tirade soon are coming to fruition with the arrival of Raindawg.

 

Office pool anyone, or will the good fight continue unabated as is?

 

 

I feel dirty and think I lost 15 IQ points after posting here. Hmmmm

[sexual_chocolate]

 

 

omigawd you ramble on like a 42D! and you tangentalize like one! duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!

 

ok first of all, i had no germane "argument", but germane points. clear your head of those martinis.

 

but you did tangentalize nicely, and yes i agree with your points, no matter how irrelevant to my original questions to vh.

 

Once again, sense, we arrive at the Universe's sole, inviolable Truth: I'm right and therefore you must be wrong.

 

See? No rambling.

 

I wish I could have a martini, but my new ice climbing religion forbids it.

 

"thou shalt work thine vicegripper device until exhaustion, which no other gripping action shall intrude upon."

 

use a straw.

 

 

Call me Sensei though, and as such, i must tell you your attempts at deductive reasoning parallel those of the esteemed seahawks (since we know that I am right, and you are again wrong, as always).

[tvashtarkatena]

Funny thing is he gave you an easy way to be perfect in his eyes and you don't have to do anything to get it but beleive that God himself hung on a cross to take away your sins so you are perfect. Pretty easy.

 

Yes, easy. Suspiciously easy.

 

Gays can go to heaven just as much as the next person. I have my struggles with other sins does that mean I don't go?? Of course not.

 

According to VH: Anyone with a spec of sin does not go to heaven, because God requires perfection prior to admission into same. That includes gays (who continue to be gay). I would imagine, for that reason, that Hell is more tastefully decorated than Heaven, with its trailer butterflies, inspiration 'golf theme' posters, and lawn deer. You don't get in, Seahawks, by your own admission. Sorry buddy. Guess I'll be seeing you in Hell.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[ericb]

You want to talk about evolution? Look what happened to this topic! It started with a sincere guy advertising for climbing team-mates and DEVOLVED into a bunch of anti-religious ranting and intolerance by a bunch of his fellow "climbers".

 

I see my suspicions that it will evolve into an anti-bolt tirade soon are coming to fruition with the arrival of Raindawg.

 

Office pool anyone, or will the good fight continue unabated as is?

 

 

I feel dirty and think I lost 15 IQ points after posting here. Hmmmm

 

I had a related thought when Lizard Brain jumped in an told us to shut up. Why in the world would we spend 60 ppg. talking about something as meaningless as religion when there's still that bolt on South Early Winters Spire - protecting a 5.0 move no less....now that would be worth all this hot air.

[Seahawks]

Funny thing is he gave you an easy way to be perfect in his eyes and you don't have to do anything to get it but beleive that God himself hung on a cross to take away your sins so you are perfect. Pretty easy.

 

Yes, easy. Suspiciously easy.

 

Gays can go to heaven just as much as the next person. I have my struggles with other sins does that mean I don't go?? Of course not.

 

According to VH: Anyone with a spec of sin does not go to heaven, because God requires perfection prior to admission into same. That includes gays (who continue to be gay). I would imagine, for that reason, that Hell is more tastefully decorated than Heaven, with its trailer butterflies, inspiration 'golf theme' posters, and lawn deer. You don't get in, Seahawks, by your own admission. Sorry buddy. Guess I'll be seeing you in Hell.

 

 

If that the case we are all going to hell. Jesus died for all sins past and future. If you die while sinning your not going to hell. None can make that grade. Denying something is sin doesn't get you a ticket to hehh if you beleive in Jesus. It just might show you have some growing to do.

[Dechristo]

Bank of America stopped there funding to Boy scouts because they are based out of SF and are the ACLU's whipping boy.

 

Funny. I neither live in SF nor am a whipping boy of the ACLU, but I will not support the Boy Scouts in any way until they stop with the rules excluding atheists and gay people. I know a lot of you grownup types got dragged outside because you were in the Scouts, but nowadays the BSA have made far too much of their exclusions. What a terrible turn for a formerly quality organization.

 

It's not that the BSA has turned, but that they have continued without turning to match popular culture.

 

 

[sexual_chocolate]

Bank of America stopped there funding to Boy scouts because they are based out of SF and are the ACLU's whipping boy.

 

Funny. I neither live in SF nor am a whipping boy of the ACLU, but I will not support the Boy Scouts in any way until they stop with the rules excluding atheists and gay people. I know a lot of you grownup types got dragged outside because you were in the Scouts, but nowadays the BSA have made far too much of their exclusions. What a terrible turn for a formerly quality organization.

 

It's not that the BSA has turned, but that they have continued without turning to match popular culture.

 

 

or: continued without maturing/evolving/wisdoming etc etc.

[STP]

You could prolly rattle off all the books of the Old and New Testament, etc. but do you really know your theology?

 

For instance, why did JC have to be born of a virgin? Why was it important to be free of original sin? Where did JC go when he died on the cross, for three days, before his resurrection? Why did Moses raise a serpent on a staff and what is it's significance with JC?

 

Question like that, not stuff that always receives the stock answer: He died for your sins.

[tvashtarkatena]

 

 

omigawd you ramble on like a 42D! and you tangentalize like one! duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!

 

ok first of all, i had no germane "argument", but germane points. clear your head of those martinis.

 

but you did tangentalize nicely, and yes i agree with your points, no matter how irrelevant to my original questions to vh.

 

Once again, sense, we arrive at the Universe's sole, inviolable Truth: I'm right and therefore you must be wrong.

 

See? No rambling.

 

I wish I could have a martini, but my new ice climbing religion forbids it.

 

"thou shalt work thine vicegripper device until exhaustion, which no other gripping action shall intrude upon."

 

use a straw.

 

 

Call me Sensei though, and as such, i must tell you your attempts at deductive reasoning parallel those of the esteemed seahawks (since we know that I am right, and you are again wrong, as always).

 

No, Sense is the correct title for such a Master of the Huka. It is true that my postings are wasted on The Mongoloid, who was born without a cerebral cortex, but then, every cat needs his mouse.

[sexual_chocolate]

Good lord, you are wrong again.