Denali Expedition 2008 - Looking for 10-12 member

[pup_on_the_mountain]

Exactly! I do agree that everyone wants a label, and its the religious label that I've a problem with when it comes to climbing. Last I checked, Kerry was not a god. Was climbersforkerry.com formed just because Kerry followed or advocated a specific religion?

[carolyn]

Rather we believe in God or not, God still believes in us humans.

 

Not according to my mom, who tells me if I dont believe then I I wont be saved,will go to hell, or whatever happens. My parents have converted over the years to being very strict and preachy in regards to religion. I cant have one conversation with them and not have my lack of "believing" or praying being the fault to all my problems. My brother on the other hand is a very devout christian. He has NEVER even brought up the topic. This I do appreciate. Because of this, he is the one I would go to if I ever did want to hold a discussion or ask questions.

 

I dont have a problem with VH (sorry kurt, had to do it!) and his beliefs, even if they differ from mine. I think he has actually done a pretty good job of defending himself without generally provoking others to argue. I havent looked at the website and probably wont. What I am curious about is this help you are offering VH. Are you offering general assistance to other climbers with climbing OR are you offering help in the form of religion? This hasnt been clear to me during the discussion. Or maybe I need to read slower.

 

 

 

 

[TREETOAD]

 

Your agenda is to try to talk to people about your version of god in a place where she is already in real evidence all around. Most people in the mountains have found their spiritual medium so leave it at home and climb without the slightly veiled agenda. There is no problem with advertising for climbers of a like mind to go on a trip. It is done regularly, but don't try to recruit others that have something else in mind. Next you will have the moonies in the hills.

[tvashtarkatena]

"Is there a problem with that? "

 

yes, around these parts. ...unfortunately....

 

if you would be up there PREACHING about the glaciers melting, you'd probably get support. preaching about how america is the devil...again, support.

 

but offer help and mention that you are christian - well, you've seen what happens

 

this place is a joke!

 

Bullshit. If you post anything in Spray, you get raped with a chain saw. Except Bong Hits for Jesus. That's just two great things that go great together.

 

There are several fundamentally hypocritical aspects of the cult of Christianity which should be mentioned here:

 

1) Only Christians are saved; the rest of us are fucked. No matter how 'nice' a Christian is, that's the way they look at the rest of us. "Join us or burn, baby". There may be Christian sects that do not believe this...anyone know of any?

 

2) Their's is the one true god. Worship anything else, or nothing, and well, see 1)

 

3) It is for reason #1 that christians seek to legally impose their religion and values on the rest of us. Anyone who doesn't believe this hasn't been awake since the Reagan years (and prior, of course). Not all christian sects are politically involved, but enough are to provide cause for great worry. They do it out of 'love'. "I loved you so much I just had to rape you."

 

I take individual as they come, but I'm one 'pre-christian' (a cute little term I pulled off a website for a church up in Everett for those of us who have gotten out of or bought into the cult) tend to find any supremicist group that considers itself 'chosen' unattractive.

 

JH doesn't seem full of hate to me, just truth.

Edited December 18, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[underworld]

Exactly! I do agree that everyone wants a label, and its the religious label that I've a problem with when it comes to climbing. Last I checked, Kerry was not a god. Was climbersforkerry.com formed just because Kerry followed or advocated a specific religion?

 

if he's not trying to convert - then who cares if it is about religion? what is the huge taboo w/ religion. open your minds!

 

at least it is in the name of a higher power and not a politician.

[underworld]

"Is there a problem with that? "

 

yes, around these parts. ...unfortunately....

 

if you would be up there PREACHING about the glaciers melting, you'd probably get support. preaching about how america is the devil...again, support.

 

but offer help and mention that you are christian - well, you've seen what happens

 

this place is a joke!

 

Bullshit. If you post anything in Spray, you get raped with a chain saw. Except Bong Hits for Jesus. That's just two great things that go great together.

 

There are several fundamentally hypocritical aspects of the cult of Christianity which should be mentioned here:

 

1) Only Christians are saved; the rest of us are fucked. No matter how 'nice' a Christian is, that's the way they look at the rest of us. "Join us or burn, baby". There may be Christian sects that do not believe this...anyone know of any?

 

2) Their's is the one true god. Worship anything else, or nothing, and well, see 1)

 

3) It is for reason #1 that christians seek to legally impose their religion and values on the rest of us. Anyone who doesn't believe this hasn't been awake since the Reagan years (and prior, of course). Not all christian sects are politically involved, but enough are to provide cause for great worry.

 

I take individual as they come, but I'm one 'pre-christian' (a cute little term I pulled off a website for a church up in Everett for those of us who have gotten out of or bought into the cult) tend to find any supremicist group that considers itself 'chosen' unattractive.

 

JH doesn't seem full of hate to me, just truth.

 

you know NOTHING about true christianity....

 

i can't speak for other christian faiths, but i know that catholics don't think they are the only ones getting saved.

[pink]

is this a non-profit vertical hiker?

 

 

is your institution tax exempt?

 

 

answer this for me please......

[olyclimber]

does the member really have to be 10-12 inches? is bigger ok?

[Weekend_Climberz]

[TREETOAD]

What does fsm mean?

[pink]

"Is there a problem with that? "

 

yes, around these parts. ...unfortunately....

 

if you would be up there PREACHING about the glaciers melting, you'd probably get support. preaching about how america is the devil...again, support.

 

but offer help and mention that you are christian - well, you've seen what happens

 

this place is a joke!

 

Bullshit. If you post anything in Spray, you get raped with a chain saw. Except Bong Hits for Jesus. That's just two great things that go great together.

 

There are several fundamentally hypocritical aspects of the cult of Christianity which should be mentioned here:

 

1) Only Christians are saved; the rest of us are fucked. No matter how 'nice' a Christian is, that's the way they look at the rest of us. "Join us or burn, baby". There may be Christian sects that do not believe this...anyone know of any?

 

2) Their's is the one true god. Worship anything else, or nothing, and well, see 1)

 

3) It is for reason #1 that christians seek to legally impose their religion and values on the rest of us. Anyone who doesn't believe this hasn't been awake since the Reagan years (and prior, of course). Not all christian sects are politically involved, but enough are to provide cause for great worry.

 

I take individual as they come, but I'm one 'pre-christian' (a cute little term I pulled off a website for a church up in Everett for those of us who have gotten out of or bought into the cult) tend to find any supremicist group that considers itself 'chosen' unattractive.

 

JH doesn't seem full of hate to me, just truth.

 

you know NOTHING about true christianity....

 

i can't speak for other christian faiths, but i know that catholics don't think they are the only ones getting saved.

 

 

so i can be a total fucker (rape, kill, steal, lie, cheat) . then one day magically drop down on knees and declare jesus christ as my lord and savior and then i'm cool and the gang and get to go to heaven.

 

lets get this party started.

[olyclimber]

his noodley appendage

[kevbone]

Who cares if they are a bunch of fundamentalist? Is that so bad?

[tvashtarkatena]

you know NOTHING about true christianity....

 

i can't speak for other christian faiths, but i know that catholics don't think they are the only ones getting saved.

 

Um, I was raised Catholic. Eight years at St. Francis Solano Elementary, baby. Sorry to dissappoint.

 

Catholics do seemed to be a bit toned down when it comes to competing religions. My parish was very liberal and did a lot of good works in the community; always a good thing. Unfortunately, 4 of my classmates were molested by priests from other parishes at CYO summer camp, so it wasn't "all good". The 'lics still have some weird ideas about sex they'd do well to get over.

[olyclimber]

I was going to start Climbers4Nihilism but it never got off the ground. We got mired in discussions whether the mountains even existed or not, and what was the point of such effort in absence of any objective truth or morality.

[pink]

Who cares if they are a bunch of fundamentalist? Is that so bad?

 

kevbone, how would you feel if someone was teaching your little boy about god/religion without your consent?

Edited December 18, 2007 by pink

[tvashtarkatena]

Oh, and BTW, Underworld, the Born Again crowd thinks you Catholics are as fucked as us atheists. Good times!

 

So here's my question for the originator of this thread:

 

If someone is an atheist who does good works, what do your beliefs tell you about what happens to them after they die? If they must stand in judgement, what chances do they have for salvation if they were ardent non-believers their whole life?

Edited December 18, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[underworld]

there were about 3000 or so killed by a few dudes in new york a couple years back. all muslims suck, right?

 

 

 

[minx]

Who cares if they are a bunch of fundamentalist? Is that so bad?

 

kevbone, what would you do if someone was teaching your little boy about god/religion without your consent?

trust me that happens all the time, at school, at their friends, at the store, in the media. its insidious

[tvashtarkatena]

there were about 3000 or so killed by a few dudes in new york a couple years back. all muslims suck, right?

 

 

 

Do I have to be the one to remind you that we're all sinners?

[Seahawks]

Who cares if they are a bunch of fundamentalist? Is that so bad?

 

kevbone, how would you feel if someone was teaching your little boy about god/religion without your consent?

 

Happens every day in public school. Evolution as fact.

[TREETOAD]

so much for this thread

[tvashtarkatena]

The evolutionary clock just got set back several million years.

[denalidave]

I could tell right away this was going to be a hot thread when I saw the title. I'm certainly no bible thumper and am turned off by any organized religion but what amazes me is how much animosity comes up when anyone brings up Christianity. I am curious if anyone would would give a rats ass if it was the ClimbigforHellsAngels, ClimbingforAthiests, ClimbingforJihadi or some other less threatening group? Seems like everyone is practically afraid these guys. They are not hurting anyone and just enjoying the right of freedom that we are all so fortunate to enjoy. I wish them a good safe trip. As for me, the whole West But does not sound like to much fun. I go to mountains not only for the challenge but also for peace and escape from the crowds of the lowlands. Spending my mountain experience with hundreds of others and waiting in a cattle line to the summit is just not my thing, but to each his own.

[Bug]

evolution vs creationism = ignorance no matter which side you are on because it is not a dichotomy except in the minds of the ignorant. Mythologies were everchanging. Ours was frozen by a new technology called literacy. Literacy gave birth to fundamentalism. Jesus threw the Pharisees out of the Temple for adhering to the Law (Torah) without acting with grace.

Jesus also spoke about following your heart not a rule.

He also said that "I am the Word, the word is Love, only through me (Love) will you get to the father."

Now if you are talking about Islam, their "Word" is the Quran, a book. Big difference.