lI1|1! Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 there was i time in my life when i was really anti-establishment. i remember my senior year of college i told a friend i wanted to be a . i'm totally serious. i wanted to live in a hole in a tree out in the woods and not have anything to do with the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 "The media," at its root and almost by by definition, is entirely a product of "the establishment," and in this sense, is "conservative" by necessity. America, is by definition and its constitution etc., a "liberal" country, even today, though there may be cause for worry. Â As for the guy in Krakauer's book, to me it's pretty clear he was a very bright guy struggling with a mild version of schizophrenia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'll see it if for no other reason than to piss off the people who have been brainwashed by fox "news" and comedian rush limbaugh to hate Sean Penn. Â Â why are you so in love with the so called open minded "liberal media"? and do you think the fact that you just graduated from college and live in an overly liberal environment has anything to do with this? Â a more fundamental question is how could such a mental midget actually acquire a college degree from any university in the US. Â uh news flash, anyone that can afford to attend college can get a degree, and theres always the "university of phenix" online degrees. no wonder no one uses their degree a 4yr anit worth the paper its witten on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I assume you know from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 13 Baby Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Crowing about academic credentials online is akin to bragging about one's sex life; i.e., if you have to do it, it most likely ain't true. Â If the Phi Beta kappa fits, wear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 ain't no crowin' goin' on heeyah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 uh news flash, anyone that can afford to attend college can get a degree, and theres always the "university of phenix" online degrees. no wonder no one uses their degree a 4yr anit worth the paper its witten on. Â gee, really, didn't know that. and apparently these online degrees make for training those who are dumber than a bucket of shit to think they are actually intellectuals because they are able to find and use online dictionaries. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 "Into the Wild" and "Grizzly Man" are similar stories in that they highlight a profound disconnect between modern life and nature as viewed through the lens of two of modernity's most extreme personalities. Using the psychotic/neurotic point of view to explore the institutionalized insanity of society at large has been an effective literary mechanism, from Dostoyevsky on. It seems to me that writing these two stories off as simple tabloid tales of two misfits who got what they deserved is simply missing the authors' larger points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm not sure that the person responsible for either work actually envisioned the person at the center of their stories as some kind of a Rousseau/Kerouac hybrid that would serve as a vehicle for such a tired and played narrative that's been recycled continuously since the enlightenment, and I'd wager that societies constituted of people who had much more direct and intimate contact with nature on a daily basis would be far less charitable in their estimation of either person. Â It's only because civilization has managed to render either starvation, being eaten by large animals, freezing to death, or the gazillion other ways that nature can fuck you up and finish you off with a sublime indifference that anyone can afford to romanticize the pathologies of either McCandless or the Grizzly Man. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Don't really see him as much different from some climbers  Remember a quote from Todd Skinner describing a meeting with an old Inuit on some trip to Greenland. The old guy asked them why they'd come, he replied to go climbing, the old guy replied for adventure, good.  Intestinal parasites, poverty, and men with guns aren't as bad as suburbia thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Yet here you sit. Â Too bad you weren't there when the locals got a load of the starry-eyed young man who went off to live unarmed, in a tent, amidst the polar bears.... Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I posted on cc.com at a cafe with 3 armed guards out front as well as an impromptu goat slaughter market and a nasty case of the runs back in January  The endless list of reasons why this story isn't interesting (and the multipage webthreads that develop) would suggest the story actually is interesting. Or at least the base idea behind it - the interaction of humans and the idea of wilderness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 "I posted on cc.com at a cafe with 3 armed guards out front as well as an impromptu goat slaughter market and a nasty case of the runs back in January." Â Someone's been all the way out there and heard the siren's song of civiliation. Â The Call of the Mild. Â ....... Â I feel it every time I'm particularly uncomfortable in the woods, and don't take my access to world class healthcare, soft-bed, running water, and warm apartment for granted for *AT LEAST* 13.4 hours afterwards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 The Call of the Mild. Â Your point, Mr. modern sanitation drugs and a plentiful food supply is the greatest thing ever, is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 13 Baby Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Online dictionaries, eh? I know a couple middle-schoolers that would have no problem pointing out the flies in the KKK guy's intellectual ointment. Â No wonder he's a Bush apologist . . . must be like looking in the mirror. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm not sure that the person responsible for either work actually envisioned the person at the center of their stories as some kind of a Rousseau/Kerouac hybrid that would serve as a vehicle for such a tired and played narrative that's been recycled continuously since the enlightenment, and I'd wager that societies constituted of people who had much more direct and intimate contact with nature on a daily basis would be far less charitable in their estimation of either person. It's only because civilization has managed to render either starvation, being eaten by large animals, freezing to death, or the gazillion other ways that nature can fuck you up and finish you off with a sublime indifference that anyone can afford to romanticize the pathologies of either McCandless or the Grizzly Man.   For some, 'tired narrative' is a way of life.  I thought both stories were fascinating.  Herzog explicitly his exploration of the larger pathology of civilization towards nature as a theme in "Grizzly Man". Krakauer was more implicit.  Both characters sought to fix what was broken both in themselves by rejecting what was broken between man and nature in their own anthropomorphized, idealized ways. Treadwell created a karmic world of reciprocity between bears and their unneeded and unwanted protector (himself) which didn't exist. By creating this world, he created a new self in the process. In doing so, he rejected a civilization that most certainly DOES have a pathological, self destructive disregard for the planet it depends on for survival. Is man's self hatred through lack of stewardship for what sustains him and gives him joy any less insane than Treadwell's make believe world of Mr. Chocolate? Is it any less neurotic than a self described intellectual global warming denier, a soft drink distributor who rails against obesity, or all the other cognitive dissonances that we observe in supposedly 'normal' individuals every day?  As for McCandless, he sought an equally idealized and unrealistic model of a pure, natural existence, free from the pollution of modern complexity and human relationships. What he sought was anything but natural; his underestimation of man's need for his fellows to survive, particularly in a wilderness as unyielding as the one he chose, cost him his life. But his desire for an unfiltered, uncut relationship with the natural world describes one of the great themes of our time, particularly in an age when the natural world is in full retreat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Online dictionaries, eh? I know a couple middle-schoolers that would have no problem pointing out the flies in the KKK guy's intellectual ointment. Â No wonder he's a Bush apologist . . . must be like looking in the mirror. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Yeah, how the hell did Bush get injected into this discussion? Jesus, can we take a fawkin' break already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I recently saw the movie and read the book many years ago and very much liked both of them. After reading the book, I didn't have a ton of sympathy for Chris McCandless. He had very romantic notions of what he wanted to do but that isn't an excuse for being woefully underprepared. He went into the Alaska backcountry without a map. Had he had one, he would have known there was a cable crossing for the river, not far from where he was. He also went into the backcountry expecting to hunt for his food having never hunted before and all he brought out with him was rice. There were other similar examples. Romanticism is great... but it is not an excuse for being unprepared. Krakauer saw a lot of himself in McCandless but when you read the stories of his Devil's Thumb experience and other climbs, he struck me as much more prepared for what he would face. Â I like what you said. I agree. We must have gone to the same band camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 13 Baby Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You'll get your Bush break in 447 days, 8 hours, 50 minutes, and 45 seconds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Saw it last night. Not bad. Kind of long, kind of Spielbergish. Decent cinematography. Story line: Everybody loves Chris, who's pissed at his parents, then he dies. Basically, a renter, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Fuck, we're all renters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 he should have nailed that little hottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 In the movie, I thought the ways in which he touched the lives of all he met was a little too "Then Came Bronson" for me. Or "Touched By An Angel" or whatever form of the mysterious-stranger-comes-to-town-and-helps-people-with-their-problems mythos you're familiar with. Â I just saw the film in Flagstaff, where the locals are a little breathless. The guy who played the aging hippie with Katherine Keener is a Flagstaff ski shop owner/river outfitter who met Sean Penn on a river trip and got snapped up for the film despite his protests that he wasn't an actor. I gather he's pretty much just playing himself, but still, he's had a few other offers from Hollywood. Â Iluka pretty much clearly stated my take on it, and as a middle aged family guy I have some sympathy for JayB's statement as well. Tvash's musings are interesting too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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