Peter_Puget Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 From thread: "After a serious accident at Squamish about ten years ago (a guy zippered several cams and smacked his head on the ledge on top of the Split Pillar) I wondered out loud to a friend how anyone could pull cams out of a crack that accepts good placements. My friend was a guide who'd taught countless beginners, many of whom were coming from gyms, and his answer was interesting. He said that beginners tended to be afraid of stopper placements, and so worked extra hard to make sure they were bomber, but that they viewed cams as foolproof modern machines that worked automatically. So, their cam placements were often marginal." MY TAKE: WTF???!?!?!?! How the hell do you pull multiple cams on the pillar????? No way...this is removing bad/dumbass genes from the pool...that is all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The pillar is expando. Back when they used to nail it, they'd be nailing one angle in and the one they were standing on would start coming out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I've fallen on my cams twice--both were first pieces and thankfully were well-placed so as not to pop. As a newbie trad leader, seeing the gear actually do what it is designed to do(ie-stop a fall) was a big deal. I remember hanging there looking at them in grateful amazement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Comments? None at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickWilly Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 From thread: "After a serious accident at Squamish about ten years ago (a guy zippered several cams and smacked his head on the ledge on top of the Split Pillar) I wondered out loud to a friend how anyone could pull cams out of a crack that accepts good placements. My friend was a guide who'd taught countless beginners, many of whom were coming from gyms, and his answer was interesting. He said that beginners tended to be afraid of stopper placements, and so worked extra hard to make sure they were bomber, but that they viewed cams as foolproof modern machines that worked automatically. So, their cam placements were often marginal." MY TAKE: WTF???!?!?!?! How the hell do you pull multiple cams on the pillar????? No way...this is removing bad/dumbass genes from the pool...that is all... I believe the climber fell off of the Sword and hit the belay ledge at the top of the Split Pillar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 that makes more sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Do a few c1/c2/c3 pitches and you will really learn how to place gear. I think going to the other end of the trad spectrum (aid) can do wonders for folks learning to place gear. It sounds weird but stepping up on placements really forces you to "look em in the eye" so to speak and see what works and what does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvshaker Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I agree, clean aid is great for learn about placements, and there is much to learn. When I climb c2/c3 I constantly find my self saying "this piece would never hold a fall" and then trying to remember which piece below me somewhere would hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 The aid thing is great but most often it doesn’t really help you to really understand the difference between a strong placement and a secure one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_forester Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 a couple of years ago at smith I saw a kid deck after he fell and all (3-4?) his pieces pulled out. they were all cams, I'm pretty sure. he was ok, luckily. I seem to remember he was clipping the slings on the cams (not extending w/ draws), and the pieces rotated out of their placements when the rope came tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinoregon Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I always see people sticking cams straight into a crack. If fell on, it may hold or it may not. One thing is certain though. It will have to move in line with the direction of fall, so when it is placed it must be placed in the direction of fall just like all other pieces. Then there is the issue of the force on all the other pieces below it. When the rope goes tight, it could pull other pieces out below. Then what happens if the cam pulls? You got it...whaaaaaaaaa. Quickdraws should not be used for trad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 ..... Quickdraws should not be used for trad. Not sure what you mean here. Is it because quickdraws are too short? I carry and use them for trad all the time. I use them for clipping wires and other gear that is placed in line. I also have a good selection of rabbit runners for when I need more length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_forester Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 obviously it's situation-dependent. sometimes it's fine to just clip to the cam sling, other times you need a long runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I agree with you that what to do is obvious. I am just wondering what Kevinoregon meant. Not trying to spray. Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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