Silvretta 500s vs. 505s

[ryland_moore]

Anyone have a suggestion on which to buy for a Denali trip next spring? Will be using the bindings with 183cm K2 Merlin IVs and Koflach Artic Expe boots. Will the 505s work with these boots or should I just stay with the 500s? No comments like, "Randonee: Short for can't tele." I do tele (although I suck and have skied since I was 4) but can't fathom the feeling of having to make turns with a full pack and sled. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[DPS]

Can't help you with the binding question, but I would recommend getting shorter skis. I went from an old pair of 180's to an inexpensive pair of 160 cm, light weight shaped skis and it makes a huge difference in skiability, particularly if you are skiing in climbing boots.

 

[ 10-01-2002, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: danielpatricksmith ]

[ryland_moore]

What length would ya rec? ANy specific skis in mind?

[iain]

here's a suggestion, take me with you. the silvretta 500's are solid. I see no reason for anything else if using mountain boots. they fit my invernos perfectly.

[ryland_moore]

That might be a possibility. Let me check with Pete A and see if the 6th guy committed (2 teams of 3). PM me if you are serious.

[DPS]

I am no ski expert, I just know what worked for me. I think 160 cm, (especially shaped) is a good marriage of downhill stability and controlabiliity with mtn boots. I know a number to climbers who use 140 cm skis for approaches. I went to Backpacker's supply and bought a pair of Atomic Alpin Tourcarv's for $199.00. I liked them because they were light and relatively cheap. Much nicer for uphill approaches as well as downhill skiing.

 

[ 10-01-2002, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: danielpatricksmith ]

[iain]

even with really heavy packs? I would think some extra float might be nice. I've only skied Tua Mito 192's ( ) with Invernos. It works, but it isn't pretty.

[Terminal_Gravity]

I use Hagan 130's Titanium edged with a big fat tip and a narrow waist. They work for me, but i'm a marginal skier on a good day. They turn very fast for narrow colouirs. the thing I like best is they weigh about 3 pounds for the pair with 500's on them.

[Rodchester]

Why not try the 555, at this price they are a steal.

 

Easy Go 555

[pete_a]

For some reason I thought that the 555 was only compatible with AT boots, not climbing boots....maybe I'm wrong though. Seemed like for a long time the only climbing boot compatible AT bindings were the ones with the wire bail on the toe. Anyone know for certain?

[iain]

I've heard of problems with the front part of the 555 not fitting some mountaineering boots. The big advantage is it is step-in. This may seem like a small thing but it becomes a big thing when you are wearing a heavy pack and you have to bend down to engage the 500 or 404 on a steeper slope (not a big deal on tours where you stay in for long times, but if you are yo-yoing it is a minor hassle). If looking for a step-in at, I'd take the diamirs over silvretta. For mountain boots, silvretta. Just some thoughts.

[fern]

just how 'heavy' a pack are you yo-yoing with?

[iain]

quote:

---

Originally posted by fern:

just how 'heavy' a pack are you yo-yoing with?

---

I didn't mean I yo-yo with heavy packs, but it is a pain when you de-skin up top each time to align your boot in the toe bail just right, bend down, etc, etc. rather than just step in. Or just get good at ripping the skins off w/o getting them powdered up w/o taking off skis. Had some good spills that way trying to keep skin dry while falling in powder, but eventually got it down.

[fern]

quote:

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Originally posted by iain:

Or just get good at ripping the skins off w/o getting them powdered up w/o taking off skis. Had some good spills that way trying to keep skin dry while falling in powder, but eventually got it down.

---

One time when a free heel has some advantage. I have on occasion ripped the skin off with a great airborne flourish designed to prevent any snow contamination, only to have it swing round and glue itself to someone else's head.

[Ibex]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pete a:

For some reason I thought that the 555 was only compatible with AT boots, not climbing boots....maybe I'm wrong though. Seemed like for a long time the only climbing boot compatible AT bindings were the ones with the wire bail on the toe. Anyone know for certain?

---

THat is correct. THe issue is with the height and shape of the heel if I remember correctly. It has to be within a very narrow (height) range to be able to lock in witht eh EZ-go's.

 

Cheers

[Cpt.Caveman]

I got silvretta 500s with ski boots. I will climb in them.

[savaiusini]

ryland,

I actually used the Merlin IV 188cm/Silvretta 404 combination back in '99 when I skied Denali. I was using AT boots cuz I was there just as much to ski as I was to climb the thing. In your case, I think you'll definitely be better served by the 500s for compatibility reasons. However, I'd have to agree with dps on going with a slightly shorter shaped ski when using plastic climbing boots. We saw a few folks up there who seemed to be having a tuff time with their long-skinnys and Koflachs. The longer the ski, the bigger the lever for those ice cookies to toss you around with.

 

Now I don't know what route you're going for, but if it's the West Butress, I had NO problem doing it in my lightweight Dynafit AT boots (they even worked well with overboots). They climbed very well and obviously had more lateral stiffness for skiing. I'm guessing that allaround efficiency is your main reason for taking skis in the first place (much smoother and quicker than snowshoes). Just a thought

 

And now for my last bit: Thermoflex liners! They really are the way to go if you don't want to worry about your toes!

 

Best o'luck to you...I may be heading up there again. Maybe we'll run into you. or maybe not.

 

[ 10-01-2002, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: savaiusini ]

[pete_a]

Savaiusini,

Just curious, did you use the TLT4 boot when you went to Denali or the Dynafit All-Terrain boot? I just picked up a pair of TLT4's with thermoflex liners for dirt cheap and thats what I'm planning on using as my boot when I go to Denali next year. Just trying to decide whether to throw my Koflach boot shells in my sled and ditch the Dynafit shells at 14k camp or just use the TLT4's the whole way up. Thanks!

I'm probably going to use a short mid-fat, like a 178cm Tua Sumo...figure that will be a good match with this boot.

[iain]

I've found my Scarpa Denali XT's warmer than any plastic mountaineering boot I've worn before. Just a pain to do any kind of steep traversing on ice in AT boots. If it's a direct route on snow/ice, no problem, AT boots. Zero french technique in those things though.

[savaiusini]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pete a:

Savaiusini,

Just curious, did you use the TLT4 boot when you went to Denali or the Dynafit All-Terrain boot?...

---

Actually, I used the old school TLT3. You know, the one with the 2 plastic buckles? I would think you're better off with the TLT4 rather than the TLTAT. Just make sure it'll work with whatever overboot you're taking. I'm sure you'll play around with it down here to be sure before taking the rig to AK, so you'll have to make the call on whether or not to take the Koflachs too....I wouldn't though.

[mr.radon]

I was up there this year. We hit the tail end of nice weather which meant we had crappy weather. However, at 14K camp we were able to ski fresh powder every day. The set up I had was awesome. here is what I used:

Bindings:

Silveretta Easy Go 505's.

No problems, stable, quick release in all my spectacular wrecks, wonderfully rugged and quick to adjust. They work equally well with my Denali A/T boots, Lowa A/T boots and Salomon Super Mountain 9 Guide's.

 

Boots:

Scarpa Denali's. I did NOT bring plastic mountaineering boots! Wanted to climb the full West Rib in them. Because of time and weather we summated from 14K camp. Round trip in 12 hours in Denali A/T boots. They are heavy, but manageable and comfortable. No cold feet, and you can cut turns like you had custom downhill gear!

 

Skis:

Last year I started out with a pair of Völkl V3 177's. They sucked in crud and wind crust; especially with a pack on!

I switched to Völkl V (Twin tip) 178's, they ROCK! You can also land 180's

These skis are the lightest I've found in that size and cut. The ski has unbelievable control in all snow conditions. Skied a lot in the back country before we left, so they do good in the crud and wind crust. They performed great in the powder on Denali. I would leave the shorter skis at home. JDOG's skis were even longer, at some crevasse crossings, I was wishing I had a couple of cm's

I would recommend a clip for the rear of the skins.

[iain]

It would be a shame to sit around in camp for days and not have some good AT boots to crank with. You didn't find the Denalis awkward at all. Did you replace the liners or go with the stock ones?

[mr.radon]

quote:

---

You didn't find the Denalis awkward at all.

Did you replace the liners or go with the stock ones?

---

I went with the stock liners. I wore the boots from the time we got on the airplane till we got off. They fit great, but no French tech. Took a few minutes to adjust to the limited flexibility, but didn't hinder me.

No cold feet, nothing. I wore the buckles really loose. We had a very cold summit day too!

 

Here are some action shots of the gear in use:

Return to 11K camp, placed cache

 

Getting ready to yo-yo ski 14K camp

YO-YO'ing to 14K camp!

 

Denali boots in overboots and crampons, front pointing on fixed lines

 

[ 10-02-2002, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: mr.radon ]

[iain]

Nice pics, thanks for the info. A friend showed me the terrain that was offered up there for skiing during downtime and it would be unfortunate to not take advantage. Twintips eh? I didn't know they put a half-pipe up there already.

[mr.radon]

Yeah we met one of the Climbing Rangers in Peru, he gave us good Beta. He also gave our intro at the Ranger station. Many people ditch their gear at 11K (stupid). 14K is the best skiing I've ever had. We skined up the West Rib Direct cutoff to check out that route, It wasn't in. We skied back to camp from there. I forgot about a nasty ass crevasse, saw it in time to get enough speed to clear the lip about 12 feet below. I thought I was a gonner! The landing was perfect and soft (lots powder). made for cool ass tracks when viewed from camp.

We stayed an extra day after we summated to ski rescue gully, but the weather socked in and we left.