ashw_justin Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 again, you nailed it on the "...and do more paving..." cuz people paid them. if people stop paying, they stop paving. No... still no. You see, this company did all of the development of this project before any of its consumers dropped a dime. Sure, it occurred in a market context that makes it look as if it is circular... but it isn't. Capital->development->payoff is the pattern, but there is absolutely nothing that says the pattern must be a closed loop. you've turned both the consumer and the developer into total mindless idiots. they are both rational... There isn't anything in the quoted statement that justifies your accusation. In fact I already said that the system can only make us wiser. Clearly the system will simply plow over any consumer or developer that falls into the category you suggest. The system is working... best not get so in love with it that you let down your guard, lest it eat you alive. Nature is vicious... and we are natural beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 hmm... oh well... sounded like you were saying that builders just build and buyer just buy - as tho it was thier 'functions' whatev, my bad. yes, wiser...natural...rational... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 What happens to companies that borrow money to produce something that consumers stop buying, or more likely, don't buy enough of at a price that's sufficient to pay off the loan and other expenses associated with producing/selling whatever they're in the business of producing/selling? THIS look at the last 12 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Don't like a Quadrant Home? Don't buy one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Don't like abortions? Don't have one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 again, you nailed it on the "...and do more paving..." cuz people paid them. if people stop paying, they stop paving. No... still no. You see, this company did all of the development of this project before any of its consumers dropped a dime. Sure, it occurred in a market context that makes it look as if it is circular... but it isn't. Capital->development->payoff is the pattern, but there is absolutely nothing that says the pattern must be a closed loop. you've turned both the consumer and the developer into total mindless idiots. they are both rational... Haven't you noticed, the "idiot motif" is his reason for everything wrong with the world. He's borderline egomaniacal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Don't like abortions? Don't have one! you're swift! that was exactly what I was parroting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Haven't you noticed, the "idiot motif" is his reason for everything wrong with the world. He's borderline egomaniacal. Oh please, I'm flattered, really. Didn't I just get done saying that we live in a system that takes care of 'idiots' automatically? Why should I be worried then? You know that saying? Something like, when you can't figure out who the sucker is... it's you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 What happens to companies that borrow money to produce something that consumers stop buying, or more likely, don't buy enough of at a price that's sufficient to pay off the loan and other expenses associated with producing/selling whatever they're in the business of producing/selling? Such companies pay dearly for misguided risk by tanking spectacularly and dying in a poof of shredded documents. The fittest investors jump ship and elude bankruptcy at the expense of the rest. Something like that... http://www.realestatejournal.com/buysell/markettrends/20070719-carrns.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Is the real estate market perfect or imperfect? Do enough choices exist for buyers or are they limited to mass produced crap turned out by a few giant property developers who dominate the supply side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 it is perfect. in every transaction - the buyer and seller are in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Nope - what you want might not be available, and you have to settle for what you can get, which does not satisfy you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Is the real estate market perfect or imperfect? Do enough choices exist for buyers or are they limited to mass produced crap turned out by a few giant property developers who dominate the supply side? This gets at the false notion of symmetry in the transaction that is alluded to by the "buyers pay for paving" argument. If the buyer was "paying for the paving" then the buyer might expect true knowledge of and direct control over the actual production of their home. In the mass-production market, product is produced in advance from capital at the complete discretion of the seller, which renders the consumer completely passive. The dollars they "vote" with in the end actually have -zero- influence on their choices, because what they have to choose from is already built. The only affect on the market that their "vote" may have is for homebuyers in the future. Which could be themselves of course, if they're smart and decide to hold out--although that still won't give them any direct control over what they get to buy. Of course, it's not too hard to accept that choice comes at a price. As long as consumers are properly tempered by a brutally fair market, they ought to be able to figure it out for themselves. The ripples shouldn't be too hard on the rest of us... at least that is the hope, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Sounds like someone needs an urban loft with polished concrete floors, exposed steel beams, and lots of glass to glower and angst about the aesthetic predilections of the middle class in. Heh. It was the fifteenth ad featuring the wife calling 911 asking for help searching for her husband who got lost on the way to the kitchen that got to me. I'm looking for a sloop in Shilshole I love the mountains JayB, of course I'd love the raven. Why don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 At least the name indicates a certain level of intellectual honesty on the developer's part. Even "Polygon Homes" would imply a bit less uniformity and regularity. It'd be interesting to see if the transitive property applies to the floorplans. I can't believe that you passed on West Seattle, though. Some folks here may take that personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 I can't believe that you passed on West Seattle, though. Some folks here may take that personally. Heh, I'm just not PNW enough to bear the 2 hour commute. Besides, life is too comfortable here at the K palais des spray. when you coming back to the promised land? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 350 days or thereabouts. Amazing how nice 100 degrees in Portland felt last week in comparison to 80 degrees with jungle-humidity in Boston. Wife wants to work in New Zealand for a spell after residency, so if that works out it might be into '09 before I'm blighting the PNW with my presence on a permanent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 ...it is shocking how expensive everything is. ...I don't know how they could possibly get into the market (especially w/o using any crazy stupid loan schemes) But all those crazy stupid loan schemes are a significant contributing factor to those shockingly high house prices. Don't worry, though, all those stupid crazy loan schemes are also a significant contributing factor in the impending shocking reduction in house prices. If I was you, I'd wait before buying anything. Check the threads at the Mortgage Broker's answer to cc.com: http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/loans/forum/2/143984.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Nope - what you want might not be available, and you have to settle for what you can get, which does not satisfy you. whether it is your first choice or your last choice. if you buy it, you agree. like climbing...once you tie in, you agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 You know that saying? Something like, when you can't figure out who the sucker is... it's you... But you ALWAYS seem to be about to figure out who the sucker is, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Nope - what you want might not be available, and you have to settle for what you can get, which does not satisfy you. whether it is your first choice or your last choice. if you buy it, you agree. like climbing...once you tie in, you agree WRONG! No means no, but silence doesn't necessarily mean Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Well, the development aspect is one issue, but they're also a prime example of low bid = low quality. Production of those homes is all about downward price pressure on all the contractors involved, and what you get is the shoddiest product everyone can get away with in the least time available. You know, just like those Russian e-bay copies are much cheaper than Wild Country friends... But hey, if you'd rather have a case of Schaefer than a six pack of Terminal Gravity, you might fit right in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 You know that saying? Something like, when you can't figure out who the sucker is... it's you... But you ALWAYS seem to be about to figure out who the sucker is, don't you? Are you actually going to say anything? Who's the sucker now, the one ranting on cc.com for fun, or the one armchairing a spray thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I found the home of my dreams yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Jay, when you come back (if you don't fall in love with the East coast as you seem to be doing), then there is a HUGE castle for you to move into that is nearly completed that is pressed right up against my property line, and even though the property was much lower in elevation than mine, then new fortress towers over my little squalid lean-to. In fact, the new colossal contribution to the Seattle's square footage fills its small lot right to the letter of what is permissible. The spacious spec manse is sure to meet your discerning tastes, and though cheaper material have been used in the construction, it LOOKS PRETTY GOOD and will surely fetch well over 600 to 700 thousand precious American Dollars. Then, while you tower over my ramshackle Hoover Hut, you can enjoy what the world has be talking about....the comfort and amenities of Glorious West Seattle. Unmatched living close to all that Downtown Seattle has to offer (sporting events, world class entertainment, a newly expanded art museum, shopping, nightlife), but hurry back to West Seattle to browse the West Seattle Farmers Market where you'll walk with a bag of fresh produce while you sample delicious baked goods and exquisitely crafted handy work of local artisans. Then stroll into to Easy Street Records to hear the latest tunes while the strange but wonderfully coifed hipsters prepare expresso to your exacting standards. Run up to Metropolitan Market and get the rest of your gourmand cooking needs, and then finally retire to your castle and enjoy incredible views of Mt. Rainier and the Olympic Mountains. West Seattle will comfort and nurture, bringing meaning in your life when before there was none. It was give you a reason for being, shine your shoes, and walk the dog. It will put your future kids through college, give you massages after a long day at the office (hand release optional), and detail your car. West Seattle, oh GLORIOUS WEST SEATTLE!!!!111!!!!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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