kevbone Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 What constitutes a "Big Wall"? Height? Commitment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 1000+ feet (ish) More than a day on the wall (ish) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 how long it takes the average team to climb it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 1000+ feet (ish) More than a day on the wall (ish) El Cap.....big wall? I would say so....but it has been climbed in under 2 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 reading comp again kevbone how long it takes the average team to climb it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 reading comp again kevbone how long it takes the average team to climb it Is that a definition? Because if it is then my description of El Cap would put it at a cragging level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 If you can climb it in a day, you can call it a crag. The rest of us will think of it as a big wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 If you can climb it in a day, you can call it a crag. The rest of us will think of it as a big wall. Well said.....would you think IB is a big wall? Its like 3000 feet of climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 1000+ feet (ish) More than a day on the wall (ish) There isn't a hard fast rule about these things. If it was solely based on length of climb there would be way more "big walls" out there. Instead, there are a lot of long free climbs. Typically the term "big wall" means that aid climbing is involved, not a shitload of bolt clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Typically the term "big wall" means that aid climbing is involved, not a shitload of bolt clipping. That is a good way to put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshamster Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 fenderfour said it. That's what it is. Some call what Huber's and other do, big wall free climbing, but big wall is generally aid/free/whatever to get up a BIG WALL. Cheers. Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 When standing at the base I tend to think of a big wall as more or less going up from that point as opposed to out and away from me. I also can tell by how warm and wet my left leg gets when contemplating the whole idea of it. Elevating IB to a 'classic' seems a stretch; elevating it to a 'big wall' is probably a bit more reaching than you did on the route - 'wall' being the operative noun in this case. No doubt about it, you did a sh#tload of climbing, but I don't think you're going to find much consensus for such a designation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 .....would you think IB is a big wall? Its like 3000 feet of climbing. Dude...if you're trying to grab bragging rights for a big wall by climbing that dirty deed up on Mt. Garfield, I don't think you're going to get much support...maybe you can impress one of them pad people or them folks in the gym. And ditto if you want to call yourself an "alpinist", or an "alpine big-wall master" because said dirty-deed is located on a mountain. Kevbone to Gym Rat: "yo, yo, sup, so I climbed this alpine big wall last weekend...yo...you payin' attention? I said "BIG WALL", little man!" Gym Rat to Kevbone: "Big Wall? Is that the route with the red tape?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 If he'd brought a portaledge and hung it off the choss layers Id give him credit for a big pile, but not a big wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 ...Id give him credit for a big pile, but not a big wall. Here, many with that assessment use simply the "ignore user" option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 If you can climb it in a day, you can call it a crag. The rest of us will think of it as a big wall. i climbed it in a day and it's still a big wall to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high_on_rock Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Since the term is vague, it is open to ones personal judgment. “Big” would seem to imply more than a handful of pitches, “wall” would imply a fairly vertical single plane. I would think that your IB route would arguably satisfy the “big,” but by my opinion not the “wall.” Of course, like Rainddog, I have never climbed the route and have no valid opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 .....would you think IB is a big wall? Its like 3000 feet of climbing. Dude...if you're trying to grab bragging rights for a big wall by climbing that dirty deed up on Mt. Garfield, I don't think you're going to get much support...maybe you can impress one of them pad people or them folks in the gym. And ditto if you want to call yourself an "alpinist", or an "alpine big-wall master" because said dirty-deed is located on a mountain. Kevbone to Gym Rat: "yo, yo, sup, so I climbed this alpine big wall last weekend...yo...you payin' attention? I said "BIG WALL", little man!" Gym Rat to Kevbone: "Big Wall? Is that the route with the red tape?" Great post! You are very funny. Little hint for you…..I am not claiming anything….I do not call myself an alpinist or an alpine big – wall master (what ever that is?). I would say a big wall is the height of a wall…..no matter how fast one can climb it. 3000 foot wall is a big wall in my opinion. Did you check out the pictures yet? I posted them on the 4th page…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 OK, it's a Big Slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradclimbguy Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 A big wall definitely needs to be a vertical wall. If it weren't that sustained vertical it would just be mountaineering, so I don't think total vertical climbed is big wall. I actually go more off pitch count. Pick a nice vertical wall then count the pitches. Whatever you consider more than just a day at the crags is then a big wall to you. I consider things like the chief a crag but El Cap is definitely a big wall for me even. I don't think I even have a magical number but I'd say somewhere around 20+ pitches and I might consider it a big wall. It's like the DNB down in the Valley. It's 23 pitches or something but doesn't feel like a big wall although RNWF on halfdome is definately a big wall even though it only takes an easy half day to get up it for most. I think it also probably depends on the style of climbing as well. The Nose goes free and at ~30 pitches I'd say its still a big wall but then there are climbs like Zodiac. At only 16 pitches it wouldn't make my cut but it's either extremely hard free climbing and mostly just aid for everyone else. So 16 pitches of harder aid tosses it back into a big wall for me. My $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 "the classic big wall route on the face of the Chief" - Fred Beckey on NW Passage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeleRoss Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 To me, the term "big wall" implies a style...ie: a big steep face, a high percentage of aid, maybe portaledges, hauling a pig, multiple nights on the wall..that to me is "classic" big wall My first "big wall" was the NW Face of Half Dome...we did it in a day, and it felt like an outstanding long climb, but I wouldn't say that I gained any "big wall" experience from it, since there was very little aid or any other components of a big wall climb, other than a large number of pitches. Had we spent a night or two on the wall, hauled a pig etc. I probably would have had more of a "big wall" experience. in the end it's all just climbing, and it's fucking fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 It seems to me that most peoples definition of a "big wall" has some aid in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 big walls are aid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradclimbguy Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 big walls are aid Take some of the scariest big wall routes in the valley and you have numerous mandatory free climbing on 5.10 R/X pitches mixed in with the already scary aid. I'd still call that Big Wall and even classic big wall regardless of pulling some of the pitches free. Big walls are not solely "aid", Salathe had numerous free pitches on the FA. TeleRoss does make a good point though on style. I think there are distinct Big wall styles. Classic Big Wall - Mostly aid, multiple days and hauling a pig Speed Climbing Big Walls - Crack jugging, short fixing and as much free climbing as possible in as short a time as possible. Free Big Walls - Obviously no aid. May still be multiple days with hauling but instead of aid you free. As for me, I've done the Nose, but only in a speed ascent. It would be completely different story to try to bring a pig and haul for days on end to get to the top. I don't think it would even feel like the same route which is why I really think the idea of "Big Wall" has to go beyond just aid climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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