tempering ego with caution (for fun and profit)

[rob]

Emboldened by success and confidence, I've been pushing myself.

 

But, how can I tell the difference between confident boldness and recklessness? How can I tell the difference between reasonable caution and fear?

 

Any tips?

 

 

[fenderfour]

Bold = taking a risk with real consequence knowing you can make it. Things are within your abilities

 

Recklessness = taking a risk with real consequence not being sure that you can make it.

 

A safe lead fall on good gear is not a real consequence. That is life. A real consequence would be a groundfall, or bouncing off a ledge.

 

I heard it here once: If you aren't falling, you aren't climbing hard enough.

Edited June 14, 2007 by fenderfour

[Rad]

Everyone must find their own way, their own balance between reckless and bold, go-for-it and back-down. There is no right answer. This applies not just to climbing, but to everything.

 

The last half of Ripple, a Robert Hunter/Gerry Garcia song copied below, comes to mind:

 

.......................

 

If my words did glow with the gold of sunshine

And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung,

Would you hear my voice come thru the music,

Would you hold it near as it were your own?

 

It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken,

Perhaps they're better left unsung.

I don't know, don't really care

Let there be songs to fill the air.

 

Ripple in still water,

When there is no pebble tossed,

Nor wind to blow.

 

Reach out your hand if your cup be empty,

If your cup is full may it be again,

Let it be known there is a fountain,

That was not made by the hands of men.

 

There is a road, no simple highway,

Between the dawn and the dark of night,

And if you go no one may follow,

That path is for your steps alone.

 

Ripple in still water,

When there is no pebble tossed,

Nor wind to blow.

 

You who choose to lead must follow

But if you fall you fall alone,

If you should stand then who's to guide you?

If I knew the way I would take you home.

 

.................

 

+

 

[wayne]

Very few climbers in America REALLY push themselves, We have it so good and yet so many responsibilities here it is hard to justify the risk. I simply rely on experience and have gradually pushed my self over the years, but I can say I have pushed myself.I wish more climbers here would. Just not on my projects.

[ivan]

bold (for me) = free soloing young warriors

 

reckless = free soloing free for some

 

bold = free soloing complete n ridge of stuart

 

reckless = free soloing girth pillar (w/o windshirt or nuetrinoes)

[texplorer]

bold = soloing Rainier in winter

 

Reckless = smoking out in the muir hut

[archenemy]

Emboldened by success and confidence, I've been pushing myself.

 

But, how can I tell the difference between confident boldness and recklessness? How can I tell the difference between reasonable caution and fear?

 

Any tips?

 

1. clarify what we are talking about:

 

Are you asking for the ability to discern the difference between emotions you are feeling while climbing?

 

2. ask why

 

What do you plan to get out of knowing these differences? Will they help you communicate with other climbers better? Or will they help you feel like you have more control over these emotions? What do you want to get out of this discussion?

 

 

3.Define general terms:

 

bold = not hesitating in the face of danger or percieved danger

 

reckless = to be unconcerned about the consequences of some action

 

fear = a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined;

 

caution = alertness and prudence in a hazardous situation; care; wariness

 

confidence = full trust; belief in the powers, trustworthiness, or reliability of a person or thing

 

reasonable = agreeable to reason or sound judgment; logical

 

4 define your specific terms that you wish to compare:

 

confident boldness = having full trust in yourself, your partner, your gear, whatever that allows you to move without hestiation even when faced with scary stuff.

 

 

reckless = to be unconcerned about the consequences of some action

 

resonable caution = logical alertness to perceived or actual danger

 

fear = an emotional reaction to stuff that scares you.

 

5. try out one answer to your question.

 

Q1: how can I tell the difference between confident boldness and recklessness?

A1: confident boldness requires trust; recklessness requires that you be removed from the outcome or the consequences of your actions.

 

So do you feel like you trust yourself, your partners, and your gear and can therefore accomplish more than you would freesoloing? Or do you feel like those people don't matter to you nor does your own safty or climbing outcome matter, then you can be considered reckless.

 

 

Q2 How can I tell the difference between reasonable caution and fear?

 

A2 when you are assessing a move, do you find yourself using a logical alertness to assess your situation? Or do you feel like the pit in the bottom of your stomach is not going to let you move any further?

 

In both cases it sounds like you shift between your head and your heart. Your head tells you that you are safe and can make this just fine. But your heart gets all a twitter and wants to go home to mama. Ain't climbing fun?

 

 

[G-spotter]

just read "rock warriors way" and drop acid

[pope]

Bold = hard move, bad gear, angry weather, climb through.

 

Reckless = hard move, bad gear, angry weather, break leg or worse.

 

Bold = exploits in mountaineering periodical.

 

Reckless = rescue in newspaper.

 

 

Hindsight is 20/20.

[pope]

How can I tell the difference between reasonable caution and fear?

 

Any tips?

 

 

If you're belayed by anybody who owns a Gri-Gri, climbs ice "leashless" or calls "Take!" when they wish for tension, you are not reasonably cautious. If you climb with anybody who DOES own a hemp chalk bag but DOES NOT own a 5-inch cam, you are not reasonably cautious. If you climb with anybody who dials 911 from the top of Glacier Peak instead of dialing Big Lou, you are not reasonably cautious.

[rob]

Why do I need to dial Big Lou? I thought he had a batman-like signal that SAR could shine against the clouds.

[montypiton]

I use a fairly simple criterion to sort out this dilemma -

 

If I'm taking falls and not getting injured, I'm pushing myself.

 

If I'm getting hurt on a regular basis, I have become reckless.

 

Yeah - its hindsight - but "good judgment comes from experience...which comes from bad judgment"