freeclimb9 Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 On packs, what is the advantage of ice-tool tubes over the older loop design? I only see three slight disadvantages in the tube design. 1) decreased durability (a broken buckle renders a tube useless unless you dro the tool in from the top); 2) where do you stash the hanging leashes?; And 3) a slightly heavier amount of material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 i think the original idea was so that you would not have to take your pack off to get to the tools...you just reach around undo the buckle and viola... but i may be wrong i am sketchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 I have them on my pack. I dont seem to see any advantage or disadvantage.. Leashes are easily stowed... I dont see how you could miss the leash part.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highclimb Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 i own the black diamond ice pack which has the tool tubes. i love em. they make packing and takeing your tool out easy and effort less. two answer the q's about the disadvantages 1.) it would pretty hard to brake the buckles ...they are low profile and burley. 2.)the leash isnt a problem you hook it to the top of your tool and its out of the way. or you can rap it around the head of your tool befor you put it in. 3.)its not a notable weight. but hey it all adds up i guess. also the crampon pouch on the outside in great too...saves room in your pack. my .2$ Aidan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imorris Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 As someone above mentioned, it's to get your tools out in situations where taking packs off would be a pain, very slow, or hazardous. You've probably been in the situation where a slope gradually steepens to the point you would like a second tool out for confidence but don't want to waste the team's valuable time. Tubes are nice there. If you break a tool in a difficult section, tubes would also be nice for getting at your backup, though I can't speak from personal experience. I believe Twight mentioned at one time a story of a guy on vertical ice and broke a pick. His backup was strapped to his pack, so the changeover to the backup was rather interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 I think the tube is a gimmick. Just about every pack I have ever carried has had loops or straps somewhere on it that would accommodate a tool simply slotted downward (head up) and, if it didn't, I could easily add a strap for that purpose. I simply ram the axe down through the most convenient loops or straps, and clip the leash to something so that I don't lose the axe if it should fall out. I have never lost a tool this way and when I thought it would matter I could always set it up so that I could retrieve my axe without taking the pack off. This works fine for a straight shafted axe, but it might not work as well for a bent shafted tool with leash-less grips (of course, I don't think the tubes will work for such a tool either). Largely, I think the same is true for a crampon patch and the rubber bungy cords they often come with. Every pair of crampons I have ever owned had some kind of straps attached to them even if it was only a pair of ankle leashes, and I simply use one of the straps to hold them together and use the other for securing the crampon to my pack (again just about every pack I have ever carried has extra attachment points somewhere, and many have straps/buckles for two tools in addition to compressor straps and those that secure the top lid). I often use an extra carabiner or even just a piece of cord as a second attachment so that I won't lose my crampons. If you face the points together (don't you?), there really isn't much need for the crampon patch. I'm not saying these features aren't nice. A tool tube or a shovel pocket or a water bladder pocket or whatever it is may be handy and many people swear by one particular feature or another. But in my view, you should pick a pack for its (1) overall size and shape, (2) carrying comfort (3) empty weight and (4) features - in that order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 I love my little Ice Sac by Wild Things. It's built like a brick shit house; you could probably drag it home behind your car if you didn't have room for it in the cab. But when it comes to the tool-tubes, I think they mostly just add weight. I find it difficult to reach back and work the fastex snap-buckle while I'm in the middle of a M8 figure-four move...especially with gloves or mittens. But that is supposed to be a bonus of the feature (easy access to the tools). Perhaps the only advantage that I could see, that I haven't yet heard mentioned, is that when you're hauling a pack with tools (especially if they're 50cm or longer), you want them to be secure, not flopping around or tennuously attached. The tubes keep them very secure, even if the point catches under a little overlap as the pack's being hauled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 MattP is right. I think the original idea of tool tubes was valid, but if you have curved shaft tools with rubber handles, getting them in and out of the tubes is a lesson in patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: MattP is right. I think the original idea of tool tubes was valid, but if you have curved shaft tools with rubber handles, getting them in and out of the tubes is a lesson in patience. i got the quark and they fit in tubes OK even tho they got a weird rubber grip and all. i definitely like tubes better than loop and velcro but all in all its kinda about 6 of one versus a half sack of the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imorris Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 Also, I tend to be paranoid about dropping things, so I take my pack off on steep stuff to get tools anyway even though it has tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 Put the axe behind your head, between the shoulder straps, when you begin to climb. If its ice tools, holster them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Tool tubes are handy, I like them, but just about every other characteristic of a pack is more important to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Avatar: Put the axe behind your head, between the shoulder straps, when you begin to climb. If its ice tools, holster them. I often do this when faced with a short bit of rock scrambling or a rappel in the middle of some snow climbing, but be sure to hold onto your ice axe when you stop and take your pack off -- or it will suddenly be completely unattached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 I don't have tubes but have thought about them some. One disadvantage is that if you are sit glissading, you risk the buckle coming undone or breaking and the tool coming out. This could be mitigated by using a carabiner thru the leashes as backup. Still, the standard loops seem more secure while glissading. It wasn't me who had to walk back up Rainier searching for a lost tool. I just sat on a rock and waited for my partner to conduct his search. He was lucky and found it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 i like having them on my pack. i guess one disadvantage is that the buckles could break, but ive beaten the hell out of mine and theyve been ok. just be sure to keep them clipped when not carrying tools and they shouldnt break. i really like to have them when making transitions in couloirs and mixed terrain. sometimes i find myself making a few difficult rock moves with one tool dangling, then hitting some ice or another unforseen obstacle that i want both tools for. since downclimbing such moves is often not an option, it is really nice to be able to just reach around and grab the other tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvs Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 I have the BD Ice Pack, and what happened to me recently is that I was glissading, and using a tool as a brake. When I wanted to put the tool away later, I found the plastic tool tube buckle had filled with compacted snow (now ice). I tried holding it in my hand, breathing on it, etc. But I couldn't get it out. Consequently, I had to put the tool in from the top, and clip the leash to a daisy chain. Lesson learned? Be sure to always close the tube buckle. I still like the tool tubes, but I'm definitely waiting for one of those sketchy situations that would make me feel really good about not having to remove my pack to get an axe! --Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 I have the BD ice pack too. The tubes provide some protection for my high dollar tools from being banged up and scratched. I'm pretty brutal with throwing my stuff around and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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