Boot Frustrations

[carolyn]

So Ive asked for a lot of advice (and received a ton!) about boots. I even took a part time job at a local gear shop so I can afford to purchase what I need.

Unfortunately I cant seem to find anything that fits right and Im not sure what to do.

Last year was my first season on ice and I rented koflach's. It wasnt until after the season I realized what a bad fit they were for me (lots of slippage)*duh!*

Ive tried alpha's, freneys, inverno's, Kayland ladies, and Kayland M10's (the m10's have been the best fit thus far,tho a bit chilly).

Although, Im thinkin plastic would be the best route to go for NOW, I will take anything that just fits right.

The problem I come up with is that I find something that doesnt allow the heel to slip , but happens to be too narrow in the ball of the foot, cutting off circulation. Ive played around w/superfeet a bit and they dont seem to make much of a difference.

The store has one or two other boots I havent tried because we dont carry my size. Im a bit nervous about ordering something before trying it on and having to do the reorder over and over again.

One suggestion I got was to get a VERY accurate measurement of my feet and send it off to some companies to see what they can come up with for me.

The other was to have someone stretch the leather in the front of the boot to fit better. They werent sure if it could also be done with plastic. Has anyone had this done and would it help?

Thoughts, suggestions, other folks with similar probs...

Solutions?!?!?!??!

Thanks a bunch!carolyn

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[JayB]

Carolyn:

You might find some of the information about sizing/modifying plastic boots on the page I've listed below useful. If you fax them an outline of your feet they'll assist you with the choice. I just got a pair of Asolo AFS 8000 boots and love 'em. I've got long narrow feet and the fit was great right out of the box. Good luck!

www.alaskamountaineering.com/Boots/Boots.htm

[slaphappy]

Funny I have WIDE feet and I have been using AFS 8000's for two seasons.

[Figger_Eight]

Plastics can be stretched out similar to ski boots. Be careful about voiding the warranty on them though. Very rarely when I worked in a shop and fitted boots did I find some, especially plastics, that fit a person perfectly. Buy the boot that fits you the best (not perfect) and start customizing the foot beds. If you have a problem with your heels slipping (in a boot that accomodates your forefoot) there are a couple of lacing tricks and/or get heel inserts. That's a lot easier than stretching the front of the boot.

[hakioawa]

I sold boots for about 7 years. Mostly apline ski boots but, various climbing and mountainieering boots as well. And the one thing that was consistant is that no two people found the same boot fit the same way. Some people felt a boot fit narrow others felt the fit wide. The point is, try stuff on. DON'T rely on "accurate measurents" and take someones advice. It does not work. Fit is not only based on the shape of your foot, but muscle tone, sensitivity, calouses etc thinge measurements don't account for.

I'd say go with plastics. If you get a good boot fitter there is more you can to to customize them. Strech, grind, pad, shim, foot beds, wedges, there is a lot you can do. Its takes time but I've found just about every boot can be made to fit every foot. But remember boots are not slippers. They are not going to be comfortable. I just look for the least uncomfortable ones.

[epb]

This is just something I'm throwing out, some people on this board probally know something more about than I do...but can't one get custom moldable liners for plastics like they can with ski boots? I'm sure it's probally expensive, but getting a perfect boot fit seems to be quite important to you. So does anyone know what is up custom liners for plastics?

[allthumbs]

Carolyn--

Stop! Don't do anything until you try on a pair of Scarpa Alpha's. They're tit. Built on a leather last, they're plastic but perform and flex like leather. Very agile. Check em' out. Spendy, but like they say...how expensive is regret.

[Neri]

Three words Lowa Civetta extreme works so good as a plastic boot. As for leather, I must say either the Trango extreme or the Nepal top extreme words will not help here just try it and you will see then get them at Barrabes

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: Neri ]

[willstrickland]

She said she'd tried them (Alphas) in her initial post and, since she's in Minnesota, a virtual meat locker, plastics seem to be the ticket for warm feet. It sounds like we have similar shaped feet...narrow heel, wide forefoot, low volume. I eventually started using a different companies inner boot(Lowa) in the inverno shells, but a friend's mutt decided to have those for dinner. Now I've actually got brand new invernos because the damn sole came completely off of one boot, not started peeling away, but dropped completely off! Must have been too humid during gluing or something. Anyway, the Lowa plastics are worth looking at, they seem to have a smaller shell size for the same size boots (smaller than Koflach and Scarpa) which would be nice...the only dislike I have with my invernos (besides being way heavy compared to leather) is that the shells are pretty clunky. For great fit get something that fits in the forefoot, and take a look at orthotics or similar devices...expensive, but the beating it takes off your knees and back, as well as the increase in performance from proper fit is probably worth the money..especially if you're pro-dealing the boots anyway. You'd be amazed at what the orthotic/custom shoe folks can do for you, even if it's just relieving knee/back/ankle pain. Just my thoughts, good luck!

[carolyn]

Yesterday I walked around in the Kayland M10's for a couple hours. I REALLY do like them A LOT...and the fit is not bad. They sure would make a great 'second' pair of boots.

Thanks to all the suggestions so far, i am going to head back to REI next week and reevaluate the alpha's (they were the closest plastic fit so far + a KILLER prodeal ). Im bringing someone from the store I work at w/me to assist with the fitting. Ive been trying to get ahold of our BD rep to see if he has any helpful thoughts as well. I guess we have a machine at the shop to help stretch ski boots. The thing is EVERYONE is leary of trying it w/climbing boots. I also know that the I need some specialized superfeet - the one's off the shelf arent very helpful.

Sounds like this is going to be a great learning experience for all of us - lots of options to dink around with. I might actually be able to SELL boots once this is said and done!

Off the subject, Will - you should have your friend's band send some promo out this way so we can try and get them to play. Send me a pm if you think they would really want to come out here.

Well thanks again all! I will definately let you know what I decide and how it works out!

carolyn

[specialed]

Caroline: Raichle Thermoflex custom liners. Used mostly for ski boots but work excellent in plastic ice boots.

Hey, I'm going to be in Minneapolis visiting relatives over Christmas. I know its been unseasonably warm there this year. Has any ice formed around town? Is it worth bringing my ice gear?

[DPS]

In response to EPB's post regarding moldable liners for climbing boots: the answer is yes. Intuition makes the Denali liner specifically for plastic climbing boots. Essentially a lower cut version of their ski boot liners. The price is 148.00. I have ordered a pair for my Scarpas for an upcoming Alaskan trip.

[fishstick]

Perhaps try La Sportiva Nepal Extremes or Technicas. If my memory serves me correctly they seemed they seemed to fit my narrow heels OK. Also note that Koflach has discontinued the ladies Viva soft. They aren't as warm as their more modern boots, but I think they should be fine for day trips. You might be able to find them on a close out.

What size do you take? MEC may have some.

Finally, and this is a long shot: Boreal makes a leather double boot called the G-1. I have narrow heels but a wider and thicker forefoot. They pretty much glue my heels in place on steep ice. My gut impression is that they're about as warm as my Scarpa plastics. I haven't a clue where to buy them or how much they'd cost.

Actually, the more I think about it, try Nepal Extremes. Expensive but they're very warm for leather singles and I know a number of women who swear by the fit.

GB

[ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: fishstick ]

[Jedi]

Intution liners (custom) out of Vancouver BC. They make a short version for mountaineering boots. They use 11mm close cell foam compared to typical 9mm. Steve House climbed the Czech Direct on Denali in Alphas with the normal liners.

$140 pair.

When I head to Alaska this spring I plan on getting the Alphas and these liners. I am getting Alaskan Expedition Services in Anchorage to custom fit the liners (they are heated) and the Alphas. I have odd shaped feet. Heel lift, shin bang, toes crunched are the typical problems I have with one boot or another.

Let me know if you need a link to Alaskan Expedition Services website. They could sell you the liners or tell you where else to buy them and you could have a local shop fit them. It would be good to have the correct fitting liners before you buy the plastics. You would want the liner to fit the shell and with the 11mm close cell foam, you may have to go up a half size.

[Dru]

agree, buy any damn plastic boot that your foot, WITHOUT THE INNER ON, fits into, then get a custom inner made to fit your foot to the shell. it will cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ though. ski boot techs are like $120/hr.

or get some mukluks and super flexible crampons and justbuild up strong muscles for front pointing. or take up sled dog racing instead. or training squirrels.............

[Richard_Pumpington]

Carolyn,

Try the Lowa Civetta 'Extremes'; you'll want theExtreme model, as it uses different plastic in the shells, for expedition/colder weather climbs.Raichle also makes a climbing boot version of theThermo-Flex liner(I've used these on Denali andMt.Logan); they create a custom fit and are quitewarm!

[carolyn]

haha! Dru....Ive already got mukluks (oooh how I LOVE them). Ive been saying all along Im going to wind up having to use them and just chop steps thru my ice climbing career.

Oh...and dogsledding is AWESOME!

Jedi, if you dont mind posting that link , I would greatly appreciate it so I can get some more info.

I must admit I am a bit confused...are you all saying , get the liners FIRST, then fit the boots? Or fit the boots best I can, get custom liners, and stretch them if neceesary?

Has anyone had to stretch their plastics, just out of curiousity?

I hope others are learning something new from this thread -as I am!

Thanks!carolyn

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: carolyn ]

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: carolyn ]

[TheDude]

Carolyn-

I'd look into the Nepal Extremes or the Lowa Civetta Extremes. Sounds like your feet might like 'em... esp. if you have a good fit with the makalus. The NE fit wider across the toe-box to acomodate the insulation, but they still end up being a little wider. Combine that with your heavier socks and it's a nice fit usually. The lacing system is one of the best to fine-tune the fit as well. You can really lock your heel into place with the lace-grabber things and then keep the upper lose for flat walking or tight for vertical. The heel cup is tight too. Civettas are great too, esp. if your feet are low volume as well. In my opinion, those are two of the best made (ie quality of construction) boots, so if one works - swheeet!

Cheers.

[Jedi]

http://www.alaskan.com/amh/Expedition1.htm

ask these guys what to do. They know their stuff.

Jedi

[Dru]

Im saying,(spraying?) get a boot that fits approximately, then get a custom liner made to tweak that fit from approximate to perfect.

[bellemontagne]

I have insurance, and I was lucky enough for them to cover the cost of some custom orthotics. If you have insurance, get your doctor to write a prescription for them. It's also important that your orthotics manufacturer know a lot about biomechanics. The guy who did mine was great, and he was able to spot and correct abnormalities with each individual foot. Orthotics take a little while to get used to, but they provide a huge improvement over time.

I have worn Koflachs, and they are pretty deluxe. I have wider feet at the toes, and I had a very hard time trying to find boots. I found the Salomon Super Mountain 9's (they come in rock and ice versions), and they were totally deluxe. I ended up buying the Super Mountain 8's - the 9's were a little more than I needed. I have also heard very good things about the Technica's.

The best piece of advice I can offer is that if it does not feel right in the store-do not buy it. Lister to your instincts. If it does not feel right, do not buy it. I ended up having to drive from Eugene to Portland to find the right pair of boots. I think I spent hours at different stores trying on boots until I found the ones that fit just right. I do not know where you live, but consider going to a larger city with more specialized gear shops to try on boots.

I have a lot of experience with super feet, and I think they suck. Don't get me wrong, they are better than nothing. I have heard good things about "Downunders" - they are a competitior to Superfeet. I have seen them, and they look much better than Superfeet-plus they are $30.

[carolyn]

alright!after some creative problem solving working w/what resources I have, Ive found something that works.

Alpha boots and inverno liners a half size smaller.

The inverno liners have a lacing system vs the alphas one velcro strap, helping keep my heel in place much better. This also allowed me to go up a half size bigger in the alpha's so its not so tight in the ball of the foot. Most likely we WONT have to stretch the plastic.

Seems like a strange combo, but it worked really well.

Thanks for all the thoughts and advice.

carolyn

ps...anyone want to buy some alpha liners?

[willstrickland]

Cool Carolyn,

Now if you can just keep your friends' dogs away from your liners...