Crazy F*ckers and Mr. Glock

[lI1|1!]

sez not having a gun in your house is like clipping bolts

[JayB]

i'm heading home now but i'll marinate on your question bill - meanwhile, what about all the democratic governments currently in existence in europe that have very limited gun ownership? they seem to have been quite stable for more than a half-century now? no juntas in spain, france, italy, germany, england, etc. meanwhile, the widespread availabilty of guns in northern ireland fueled a bloody civil conflict to oust a democratic goverment.

 

home time!

 

Check the history of Europe pre-1945 and compare with the post WWII period. Was it the gun laws that changed? How does the history of Euroland compare with that of Swizterland* on the stable democracy front?

 

 

*"The gun policy in Switzerland is unique in Europe. The personal weapon of militia personnel is kept at home as part of the military obligations. This, in addition to liberal gun laws and strong shooting traditions, has led to a very high gun count per capita."

[foraker]

Except that Switzerland isn't full of a bunch of aggro testosterone-poisoned cowboys looking to start or settle a fight.

[cj001f]

i'm heading home now but i'll marinate on your question bill - meanwhile, what about all the democratic governments currently in existence in europe that have very limited gun ownership? they seem to have been quite stable for more than a half-century now? no juntas in spain, france, italy, germany, england, etc. meanwhile, the widespread availabilty of guns in northern ireland fueled a bloody civil conflict to oust a democratic goverment.

 

home time!

 

Check the history of Europe pre-1945 and compare with the post WWII period. Was it the gun laws that changed? How does the history of Euroland compare with that of Swizterland* on the stable democracy front?

 

 

*"The gun policy in Switzerland is unique in Europe. The personal weapon of militia personnel is kept at home as part of the military obligations. This, in addition to liberal gun laws and strong shooting traditions, has led to a very high gun count per capita."

 

yeah, we need more paranoid racist xenophobes like the swiss in the world.

 

As for a democracy.... uh, whatever. That really only dates to 1848..... about when it came to the rest of Europe

[billcoe]

Hey Ivan, you made my point for me. Franco just got laid to rest a bit ago and is barely cold. His buddy Mussolini wasn't gone much longer. Which makes my point quite capably. France, BTW, is now in it's 4th republic, it hasn't all been fun and games as it turns out.

 

England, I can't explain away so easily, they did the Magna carta before guns and have some history of rebellion here and there, including the colonies.....give them time.

 

BTW, I never said that IN EVERY CASE when the population is NOT armed they will be taken over by some self-promoting windbag who has military backing, But when the population is not armed is when you see that.

[Dechristo]

With the recent exception at Virginia Tech, the three worst public shootings in the Western world during the past year all occurred in Europe.

[tvashtarkatena]

 

seems to me that countries w/ juntas are broiling w/ ak's - and the journalists in those countries are scared to death to write anything unflattering about either the government or the rebels as both will use their guns to kill them - there is no freedom of speech b/c there is too much freedom of guns

 

Not true. Maybe you can name a country with univeral weapons ownership that has had issues? Perhaps you are thinking of places having a civil war, maybe Nicarcua when the US was supplying one side, or El Salvador.

 

The government of Guatamala was able to terroise the population and murder thousands of innocent civilians because only the govenment had weapons.

 

They are still digging up people in Chili, Ecuador and Brazil due to similar circumstances. Some of those countries have some, but not even close to all, opposition armed, Uruguay and Peru: for instance, which causes a whole differnet set of problems with normal - not able to get armed -people getting slaughtered by both sides. The shining path in Peru has weapons, but they are running around a country devoid of them outside of the military.

 

The sides doing the slaughtering know that the side with the most effeicient and biggest weapons will rule the country. And control the media too.

 

Which is why they don't want assholes like us having weapons.

 

This is one of the most ridiculous arguments put forth here so far. In essence, it's nothing more than an adolescent beat-off fantasy probably stemming from too much TV time.

 

When a company of highly trained professional soldiers shows up at your doorstep with fully automatic weapons and grenades, you don't reach for that pea shooter you've got hidden away in the closet somewhere. You know, the one you practice with maybe once or twice a month...if you're an enthusiast, that is?

 

No, you say "Yes sir, no sir, of course I'd love to suck your dick, sir." A population of 'well armed' weekend warriors is nothing compared to a full time, trained military force...even a shitty one. I don't care how many pump action 12 gauges you've got in the closet or how many times you've seen "Red Dawn". In your fantasy world, you might imagine yourself organizing a resistance, maybe with Kurt Russel as a partner, training, blowing things up...but you won't. Few populations in history do. Most just obey the regime, try to get on with their lives, and avoid trouble.

 

Now, in America, which is after all the society we're talking about, the gubbamint doesn't just show up with guns...it shows up with tanks, choppers, IR vision; all the very latest from the OverwhelmingForce.com.

 

But mostly, it shows up with nothing more than a carefully crafted soundbite, which you swallow whole...just like the NRA's beat off fantasy of citizen's armed resistance you're trying to foist on us all here.

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[Jim]

With the recent exception at Virginia Tech, the three worst public shootings in the Western world during the past year all occurred in Europe.

 

US population: 275 million US firearm homicides: 10,801

EU population: 376 million EU firearm homicides: 1,260

Japan population: 127 million Japan firearm homicides: 22

[ivan]

With the recent exception at Virginia Tech, the three worst public shootings in the Western world during the past year all occurred in Europe.

 

US population: 275 million US firearm homicides: 10,801

EU population: 376 million EU firearm homicides: 1,260

Japan population: 127 million Japan firearm homicides: 22

i'm sure the folks 'round here will want a source

 

they had plenty of guns at waco, texas - didn't seem to matter much

[Jim]

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/forum/docs/sept04lemaire.pdf

 

Another interesting comparision:

 

A tale of two cities: Seattle and Vancouver

 

Sloan (1988) compares Seattle and Vancouver, two cities with similar population, climate, income per capita, poverty rate, unemployment rate

 

Different approaches to gun regulation

Gun ownership rate: 41% (S), 12% (V)

Seattle handgun homicide rate 4.8 x higher, assault with gun rate 7 x higher

But nearly identical rates of burglary, robbery, assault, and homicides without guns

[joblo7]

guns are for the spiritually impotent.

[billcoe]

It underlying true importance of ownership of guns weapons has nothing to do with self protection from Indians or Meth freaks or hunting Bambi.

 

It is this single thing, of the highest importance in ALL of our lives, but like good health: not enjoyed until it is gone. So I will put it in bold for you all.

 

POLITICAL FREEDOM

 

Those who have the weapons get to make the rules. Period.

 

I want that to be the people. PERIOD.

_______________________________________________________________

 

Truest thing said yet on this thread.

[Dechristo]

guns are for the spiritually impotent.

 

platitudes are from dullards

[tvashtarkatena]

Rules are for the Important.

[Dechristo]

Rules are for robots.

[tvashtarkatena]

Lesbots. Cool.

[Seahawks]

GUN CONTROL HISTORY & FACTS:

 

Whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson in history.

Something to think about...

 

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.

From 1929 to1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend

themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

 

In 1911, Turkey established gun control.

From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend

themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

------------------------------

 

Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 to 1945, a total

of 13 million Jews and others who were unable

to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

 

 

------------------------------

 

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million

political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

------------------------------

 

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981,

100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

------------------------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000

Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and

exterminated.

 

 

------------------------------

 

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one

million educated' people, unable to defend

themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

-----------------------------

 

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century

because of gun control: 56 million.

 

------------------------------

 

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced

by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by

their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than

$500 million dollars.

 

 

The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up

3.2 percent. Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

 

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up

300 percent.

 

 

 

Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the

criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

 

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in

armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in

the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their

prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of

the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how

public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense

was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The

Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

 

 

You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our

president, governors or other politicians disseminating this

information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and

property and, yes gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding

citizens.

[Dechristo]

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

 

By the time you got to this point and read this sentence, you simply nodded your head while your lips moved, didn't ya?

[Dechristo]

...and, you are the worst offender for unattributed quotes on this site.

[Seahawks]

...and, you are the worst offender for unattributed quotes on this site.

 

Your such a prick to everyone on this site I will not even respond.

[Dechristo]

To at least keep you from walking into poles, do you have an escort for your pedestrian activities?

[Seahawks]

To at least keep you from walking into poles, do you have an escort for your pedestrian activities?

 

I'll use you and just shove you into traffic.

[Dechristo]

Looks like they were a little late in making the helmet mandatory.

[billcoe]

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million

political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

 

Interesting that I was just ruminating on this fact yesterday. A dude from around here and some buddies decided to unfurl a banner (opps, free speech not allowed, nor are guns allowed in China) at Everest Basecamp, Tibet.

 

They got lucky and only spent 15 days without regular sleep, food or water in a Chinese jail.

 

The banner was only requesting freedom for Tibetians. It said "One World, One Dream, Free Tibet 2008" .

 

Sorry, no guns: no free speech. Crime to think incorrect thoughts.

 

news link

[Seahawks]

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million

political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

 

Interesting that I was just ruminating on this fact yesterday. A dude from around here and some buddies decided to unfurl a banner (opps, free speech not allowed, nor are guns allowed in China) at Everest Basecamp, Tibet.

 

They got lucky and only spent 15 days without regular sleep, food or water in a Chinese jail.

 

The banner was only requesting freedom for Tibetians. It said "One World, One Dream, Free Tibet 2008" .

 

Sorry, no guns: no free speech. Crime to think incorrect thoughts.

 

news link

 

I saw that on the news too. DC doesn't care he's a liberal freak with no critical thought.