Stealing fixed draws

[eggplant]

its a nick name they say my head is shaped like one...

[billcoe]

its a nick name they say my head is shaped like one...

 

 

 

Whoa there. Not that I'm talkin or have any room there, look at my avatar.

[cluck]

This is just too much fun to leave alone. I've always wondered how the "old-school" practice of leaving gear on a project would hold up in today's increasingly crowded areas.

 

Consider this scenario: I'm working Chain Reaction cuz it's going to be my first 12c but it's kicking my ass and I don't finish it on the first day. So I lower off the 4th bolt, pull my rope and head out for the night. I don't bother to clean my draws because I'll be back to finish my project after a rest day or two.

Next day, some hot shot sporto shows up after doing laps on Scarface in his florescent lycra tights and wants to prove to his friends that he can onsight that "bitchin line on the cover." But shit, there's already draws on most of the bolts. That doesn't count as an onsight!

 

 

Of course - that's purely hypothetical. I'll never climb Chain Reaction. But still, there are more an more people out there climbing hard routes and there's no guarantee the gear you leave on the route won't be in someone else's way.

 

Don't get me wrong - I don't think it's ever acceptable to steal someone else's shit. But by leaving your draws on the route, seems like your just gambling that nobody else will come along before you return.

 

 

Hate to break it to you...but chain has draws on it .. ooops hope that doesnt affect anybodys onsight

 

Hmmmm.... I guess that explains why I always see draws on that route. I just figured someone was working it!

[eggplant]

yes. well there not so much fixed as they are just someone is always projecting it

[eggplant]

yes. well there not so much fixed as they are just someone is always projecting it

[billcoe]

yes. well there not so much fixed as they are just someone is always projecting it

 

yes. well there not so much fixed as they are just someone is always projecting it

 

ANYTHING WORTH SAYING ONCE IS WORTH SAYING TWICE.

[eggplant]

where do you stand on this billcoe?

 

ok not ok ?

[billcoe]

where do you stand on this billcoe?

 

ok not ok ?

 

 

ANYTHING WORTH SAYING ONCE IS WORTH SAYING TWICE THREE TIMES.

 

I will go find my post and repost it again. It's back two pages. Thank you for asking. My wife says that one of my biggest faults is that I'm an opinionated blowhard who always thinks he's right.

 

I don't have an opinion on that so maybe she's a bit offbase?

 

I think people should leave other people shit alone and we should respect each other. That includes people hanging draws on popular sport routes and thinking it's OK, and generally being inconsiderate. So it's a two way street. If it's a hard overhanging route, and getting your draws down is difficult, then leave them up for a while. People should respect that.

Don't leave them up otherwise. Just because the French do it or the hard routes at Smith it's done that way doesn't mean its right. Especially given how pissed some people get about it. A popular SHORT route, pull em. In either case people should leave each others stuff alone. In this case, dude that pulled them is certainly more in the right than the dude who left them. The draws were not "stolen" but offered back/returned and a point was made. How much of an inconvience is it to reclip the route? Will it blow his pinkpoint or whatever the hell he's trying for? Ahhh, good practice to reclip the draws anyway.

 

I tend not to be bothered looking at draws hanging someplace personally. I would have just clipped them had I shown up to do the route. If people leave a rope hanging on a route for TR, I'll ask to use their rope. I always offer mine up before anyone can ask unless I'm finished and heading out.

 

Respect goes both ways.

 

Like people chalking the f* out of the local 5.3 traverse. You get to breath their chalk dust despite the fact that chalk is totally unnecessary when your feet are not higher than 1 foot off the deck on a long, easy traverse. It's disrespectful as hell. This is radically different than chalking a difficult highball that is rarely done, or a hard climb. But people tend not to think of others.

 

People take their dogs to the crags and let them wander. (I have 2 dogs and they are not crag dogs). Dogs piss on packs, eat others lunches, fight with other dogs.....pretty disrespectful of others generally when this happens. My regular climbing partner has a dog, I'm fine with it showing up, and it's unleashed, cause partner has it under good voice control. Plus, if we will be in a crowded place, he tends to leave bandit at home.

 

That's what I think. Respect each other, especailly as it gets more popular and crowded.

[eggplant]

yeah i agree with that.

 

i was just more disturbed by the people saying they would throw the draws away. To a 17 year old like my self that stuff adds up!

 

same with the dog there is no way i would ever bring my dog out to the crag simply because it isnt that nice to other people.

 

just last weekend a dog pissed on my foot. i couldnt believe it.

[NYC007]

crap I left 9 pieces in a hard crack at the crag that was my project and they were stolen. thats wrong, even though I maybe just lazy.

[G-spotter]

Maybe it was those Colorado dudes who punch climbers and talk shit about chopping bolts off Cerro Torre.

[billcoe]

yeah i agree with that.

 

i was just more disturbed by the people saying they would throw the draws away. To a 17 year old like my self that stuff adds up!

 

Yeah, me too. totally agree. Stuff costs a lot. Over on rc.NOOB I just got into an arguement with some asswipes who were saying that a guy I know deserved to have his slackline stolen down near Moab just 'cause he left it up.

 

 

just last weekend a dog pissed on my foot. I couldnt believe it.

 

Damn...that's F*ed up. Some dogs are fine, some aren't. I'd be ganked bad on that one, especially if the lil' fu*ker hit my rope too.

 

Probably a Poodle with emotional issues? Damn.

[G-spotter]

Dogs piss on things to mark territory, just like sport climbers with fixed draws, or boulderers with tick marks.

[chris]

Leaving gear up on a route, for whatever reason, seems to mean that someone intends to come back tomorrow and 1) work on this or 2) clean it up. I know that there are good reasons for why gear gets left behind - medical emergency, poor time management (it gets dark), or a quick trip to the toilet turns epic. So I expect to see someone come back tomorrow to do something with those draws I see hanging up there...

 

Only no one does. And not the next day either. And so I ask around for the story, but no one has one. That's when these draws stop being "project" and start becoming "abandoned".

 

That's actually the rule down in the Sierra, in the Valley, King's Canyon, and the surrounding wilderness area: gear (climbing and wilderness camping) is considered abandoned after 24 hours. If you leave a note attached, most climbers will respect it, but the rangers probably won't (there have been exceptions).

 

Projects are just that - present tense - and I would never consider leaving draws up on a climb from one weekend to the next. I would consider it even less if I needed to drive 100+ miles home.

 

I'm sorry your draws were taken, Manimal. But I'm not surprised at all. You ran a risk leaving your draws for up unattended for five days while you were miles away.

[chirp]

Wow 6+ pages on one inane topic. Welcome to RC.com!

[richard_noggin]

Who ever stole those draws was a climber and knew he was rip'n them off, he shall reap bad karma or maybe an ass woop'n, the climbing world is small place, if I was the ripoff I would be getting nervious about now KARMA

[kevbone]

If I took the (shitty, weather beaten) draws off Chain Reaction, would that be stealing or cleaning up the crag? Those draws (or others like them) have been there since the first time I went to smith in 1996.

 

Just remember Richard...... the guy left his gear, on purpose on public property. The exposure was there for some ass to come along and take it.

[jibby]

all the fixed draws look like they could be replaced. they are starting to look a little skechy, especially the ones at the anchors.

[richard_noggin]

If I took the (shitty, weather beaten) draws off Chain Reaction, would that be stealing or cleaning up the crag? Those draws (or others like them) have been there since the first time I went to smith in 1996.

 

Just remember Richard...... the guy left his gear, on purpose on public property. The exposure was there for some ass to come along and take it.

 

 

Replaceing the draws on Chain Reaction ...good karma

Steal'n the draws off of Chain Reaction....bad karma ..ass woop'n

Were talk'n about a climbing gear thief here not a flower snif'n do good'er, the draws were stole'n, the thief was not trying to make the power house a more beautiful place

[kevbone]

If I took the (shitty, weather beaten) draws off Chain Reaction, would that be stealing or cleaning up the crag? Those draws (or others like them) have been there since the first time I went to smith in 1996.

 

Just remember Richard...... the guy left his gear, on purpose on public property. The exposure was there for some ass to come along and take it.

 

 

Replaceing the draws on Chain Reaction ...good karma

Steal'n the draws off of Chain Reaction....bad karma ..ass woop'n

Were talk'n about a climbing gear thief here not a flower snif'n do good'er, the draws were stole'n, the thief was not trying to make the power house a more beautiful place

 

 

Not to be an ass, but how do you know what the thief was thinking?

[AlpineMonkey]

I left my rack fixed on Party and Your Pants, which I'm projecting now. I expect to find all my cams there when I return in a week and a half.

[ryland_moore]

Hey I found some cams and assorted nuts on "Party and Your Pants" yesterday. I took them with me so someone wouldn't steal them. I live in PDX and you can come and get them. Not sure when I will be back up that way as I am heading out of town for two weeks tonight. PM me and we can work something out.

[billcoe]

Wow 6+ pages on one inane topic. Welcome to RC.com!

 

Is this what passes for wit, intellegence or interesting contribution in your neck of the woods chirp?

 

BTW, Richard, you might try reading the thread before you post, as it's been noted that these draws were not "stolen" but were pulled down as the OP left them hanging on a "Popular sport route" and they've been offered back to the dude.

[richard_noggin]

Wow 6+ pages on one inane topic. Welcome to RC.com!

 

Is this what passes for wit, intellegence or interesting contribution in your neck of the woods chirp?

 

BTW, Richard, you might try reading the thread before you post, as it's been noted that these draws were not "stolen" but were pulled down as the OP left them hanging on a "Popular sport route" and they've been offered back to the dude.

 

What's an OP, and with sooo much shit talk'n here ...I read the whole phuk'n thread, but as I last heard from the dude he was still missing his draws...so no BS who took them and when are they getting returned???

[Raindawg]

Who ever stole those draws was a climber and knew he was rip'n them off, he shall reap bad karma or maybe an ass woop'n, the climbing world is small place, if I was the ripoff I would be getting nervious about now KARMA

 

Hey noggin, sorry man to have to disagree with you on all points here:

 

1)...this "ass woop'n" caveman-posturing that you and some of the others talk about is passe. "Ass woopin'" in 2007 = "jail time" = 4 YOU.

 

2) Karma? How many of you really believe in that boring cliche?

 

3) The "climbing world" isn't a small place.....there are huge numbers of people calling themselves "climbers", like ants on a dropped Jolly Rancher. (see my comments somewhere about about how sport-climbing and gyms made climbing accessible to the semi-informed masses.)

 

4) Stealing? Like a few of the other people discussing this topic, I'd like to high-five the guy who picked up the vertical litter.

 

 

 

i was just more disturbed by the people saying they would throw the draws away. To a 17 year old like my self that stuff adds up!

 

Young Eggplant-Head: By the time you're 17, hopefully you've learned to clean up after your outdoor adventures. Some people never get the message.

Leaving the retrieved junk at the base of the climb is one option, I suppose, but there is no guarantee that someone who left the stuff is coming back nor that someone will "steal" it. One might argue that it should be treated the same way as that tractor tire someone threw off the cliff or the other refuse that those "non-climbing gorge-concert dudes" who are always blamed leave at Vantage. [it get's the rolling eyes because I've seen climbers leave plenty of litter.] Is cleaning up a mess "stealing"? Should we just leave that tractor tire out there cuz it's somebody else's stuff? Or that lawn chair with the torn seat that's sitting toppled over by an impromptu campsite on a Monday morning?

 

same with the dog there is no way i would ever bring my dog out to the crag simply because it isnt that nice to other people. just last weekend a dog pissed on my foot. i couldnt believe it.

 

You find it hard to believe that a dog would piss on your foot? You are lucky it wasn't your rope or pack! They'll snarl, scare local wildlife and get into your stuff. I was belaying a guy way up on a hillside in Icicle Canyon once, tied into an anchor, while I watched a dog rummage through our packs and take our food! The dog's owner was three pitches up and could care less.

Leave "Chilkoot", "Denali", and "Gri-Gri" at home. Lots of folks don't like dogs and the issues they create. Speaking of

Vantage...I knew a guy who took his dog out to Vantage where he was parked somewhere around the vicinity of "Air Guitar". Twice in the same day the beast was nearly killed by rock fall that came within inches.

Bow-wow! "Bad dog! Go home!"