Christian Climbers.

[foraker]

I used to think exactly like you

 

I can say with absolute certainty that that is extremely unlikely.

 

Yeah, not too many people think they are the love child of a mermaid and an alien space-faring pirate

[Seahawks]

This subject with this group is like a pack starving lions with a gazelle for dinner.

 

Opionions are like assholes, everyones got one.

[greenfork]

I used to think exactly like you

 

I can say with absolute certainty that that is extremely unlikely.

 

Perhaps my statement was too strong, but whatever. I used to have a knee-jerk negative reaction against anything Christian... I was quite prejudiced.

 

From what you've posted, you seem the same way.

[G-spotter]

This subject with this group is like a pack starving lions with a gazelle for dinner.

 

Opionions are like assholes, everyones got one.

 

And we rather you stopped showing us yours.

[ryland_moore]

I guess I was trying to make it more general for others. In Christianity, yes, you can make it to heaven if you accept Jesus as your Saviour. There was a great documentary on last night about a teen lesbian who was Christian in the south somewhere and was being ostracized by her church because she came out of the closet. She actually met with her pastor and confronted him with som e of the issues she was dealing with in regards to her faith and with being gay. It was pretty impressive to see the pastor's response. he said, "I am not the one who judges you, He is." So I interpret to mean that all people regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs can all go to heaven.

[Stewart]

don't throw religion in your face.

 

Growing up in a conservative Babtist family, all they ever told us was how to convert someone, how to bring up religion in everyday conversations, etc. I was worried all my friends at school would go to Hell. I was convinced Catholics, Muslims, Buddist were all going to Hell and it was my job to get them on "God's side"

 

Greenfork, pay attention to the world you live in!! Its all around us!!

[tvashtarkatena]

JosephH, do you really feel that the monk's in Tibet are really hunting you like prey and trying to create war, genocide, etc. Tibetians may be some of the purist people on the face of the planet.

 

 

As I understand it, Buddhism is not, per se, a religion, because it does not define a diety. You can therefore be Christian and Buddhist, or atheist and Buddhist, without contradiction.

 

Religion, on a smaller scale, has certainly comforted many people and granted them a sense of community. It has also been a torment for many, as well. On a larger scale, however, religion has undoubtedly been a driver of and justification for political oppression and warfare. During certain periods it played a significant role in holding back the advancement of human knowledge for many centuries. Today, it has become a war cry for those who choose to believe that we are locked in a death struggle between judeo christian western society and fundamentalism. This kind of irrationality does not move the human ball forward. It diverts our attention, energy, and resources from resolving the more pressing issues of our time (the first being climate change).

 

Lately, some christian sects have put the environment on their agendas. We'll see if this new movement can overtake the unproductive, divisive ignorance that runs so rampant these days.

[Seahawks]

This subject with this group is like a pack starving lions with a gazelle for dinner.

 

Opionions are like assholes, everyones got one.

 

And we rather you stopped showing us yours.

 

Go find your G-spot, unless you had it cut off.

[tvashtarkatena]

I used to think exactly like you

 

I can say with absolute certainty that that is extremely unlikely.

 

Yeah, not too many people think they are the love child of a mermaid and an alien space-faring pirate

 

Shhhhhhhh. They're monitoring us.

 

Daddy was a pirate? Even cooler. And hey, mine's as good a religion as any.

Edited February 6, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[ryland_moore]

Defining specific sections within a religion is next to impossible. I greww up thinking all Southern Baptists were snake handlers who spoke in toungues and were not allowed to danceor have fun. I grew up thinking Jerry Fallwell was crazy ( I still do). So, labeling someone as Christian and having the same or similar beliefs may be totally off base. I would considersomeone who believes in Christianity and someone who labelsthemsleves a fundamentalist Christian as two almost completely different things. Same as I would label polygamists and mormons astwo totally different things (in present day)

[knotzen]

Wikipedia has a good layout of the "problems" with Christianity:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianity#Criticism_of_Christian_doctrine

 

I particularly like this quote:

 

"The idea of atonement for original sin is criticised by some on the grounds that the image of God as requiring the suffering and death of Jesus to effect reconciliation with humankind is morally repugnant. The view is summarized by Richard Dawkins: "if God wanted to forgive our sins, why not just forgive them? Who is God trying to impress?".

 

 

 

 

[Stewart]

I guess I was trying to make it more general for others. In Christianity,

yes, you can make it to heaven if you accept Jesus as your Saviour.

 

ryland_moore, did you know that you will get to just outside heaven's gate and then they look you up in "THE BOOK OF LIFE"? If you don't make it past that, into the "Lake of Fire" with you. Accepting the baby Jesus just gets you a shot at being judged, just like everyone else. Please explain why I am wrong. As, I'm sure that I am in your interpretation of "God's word"

[greenfork]

don't throw religion in your face.

 

Growing up in a conservative Babtist family, all they ever told us was how to convert someone, how to bring up religion in everyday conversations, etc. I was worried all my friends at school would go to Hell. I was convinced Catholics, Muslims, Buddist were all going to Hell and it was my job to get them on "God's side"

 

Greenfork, pay attention to the world you live in!! Its all around us!!

 

Indeed, Christians are supposed to "make disciples of all nations". So you could argue that Christians who keep to themselves, instead of trying to convert everyone, are in fact sinning.

 

You could also argue that living a life true to Christ's word is more likely to positively influence non-believers into living a godly life than is "throwing religion in someone's face" like your baptist friends did.

[tvashtarkatena]

She actually met with her pastor and confronted him with som e of the issues she was dealing with in regards to her faith and with being gay. It was pretty impressive to see the pastor's response. he said, "I am not the one who judges you, He is." So I interpret to mean that all people regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs can all go to heaven.

 

You're interpretation contains more than a spoonful of sugar. If interpreted against the backdrop of so much Christian anti-gay teachings, I'd say what the pastor was really saying was "It doesn't matter if I dissapprove; I'm just a man. It's the Big Guy that disapproves of your lifestyle." I.e., "You're fucked, little girl."

[sexual_chocolate]

The ones who label all religions as evil are about as idiotic and reactionary as Pat Robertson, and usually don't even friggin' know what "religion" means.

[olyclimber]

Hell is other people

[greenfork]

The pastor should have reminded his flock that the Big Guy will be judging them for ostracizing the teen.

[ryland_moore]

Stewart, I don't think you are wrong.

 

Tvash, yeah, that is what i was taking from it. But again, that was what he, as a man, was saying, probably from his individsual point of view, but he would not go so far as to say that he could speak on God's behalf and that she would not reach heaven if she acted on her feelings. I would not agree with her pastor here.

 

Also, any of y'all check on the video "First Ascent"? Really cool movie, but one of the best climber's in the world, Didier Berthod is a devout Christian . He also seems to have a really cool perspective on climbing and what it means in his life. I highly recommend it.Not your typical 5.15 sendfest of a route that has been beaten into submission all for the glory of appearing on a climbing vid with your favorite track playing in the background.

[tvashtarkatena]

You could also argue that living a life true to Christ's word is more likely to positively influence non-believers into living a godly life than is "throwing religion in someone's face" like your baptist friends did.

 

You just captured a basis for my 'prejudice', which I would recast as a 'lack of respect for overly pious.'

 

We non-believers do not need your example to lead a good and moral life, thank you. We can well manage on our own.

 

And if that means the Lake of Fire (LOF?) for me, well, that's where all my friends will be.

[G-spotter]

Maybe he was too busy snorting meth and hiring prostitutes, like Pastor Ted.

[Stewart]

No doubt greenfork, Christianity is helpful for many unstable people. And whatever works for you, great! But to the ladies that stop by my house and want to pray with me. Please leave me alone and seek out the homeless people on every street corner who really do need help. They could use a little God in there "Hell on Earth"

[tvashtarkatena]

The ones who label all religions as evil are about as idiotic and reactionary as Pat Robertson, and usually don't even friggin' know what "religion" means.

 

So far you are the only one who has framed such a statement on this forum.

[joblo7]

christians believe heaven is for ' them'.

jews believe they are chosen.

muslims believe they posess 'the' truth.

hinduism believes in shades of light and layers of truth

buddhism believes in progress and oneness.

 

the first 3 are humanized versions of the last 2 which were here first.

[tvashtarkatena]

Stewart, I don't think you are wrong.

 

Tvash, yeah, that is what i was taking from it. But again, that was what he, as a man, was saying, probably from his individsual point of view, but he would not go so far as to say that he could speak on God's behalf and that she would not reach heaven if she acted on her feelings. I would not agree with her pastor here.

 

 

Or the pastor could have said "Being gay is OK. Don't worry about it. God loves you just the same." But the church, or at least a lot of churches, do not believe that choosing who you want to love because it's right for you is OK, do they?

 

Yet another basis for my 'prejudice'.

Edited February 6, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

But to the ladies that stop by my house and want to pray with me. Please leave me alone and seek out the homeless people on every street corner who really do need help.

 

What if they're really hot?