commie punks

[ClimbingPanther]

tvashtarketana is a degenerate atheist commie. Too bad I have to let that lousy commie punk vomit all over me. Whatever happened to the freedom of silencing dissent?

 

But seriously, what's with getting upset over a few references to God in a thread geared towards info for interested parties all over the world & condolences towards families of believers? Atheists are a minority, maybe not among the regulars here, but that thread wasn't just for the regulars. Now the evangelism was definitely out of place, but "God Bless?"

[DirtyHarry]

Praying for the safe return of an alpinist is just a waste of time because Jesus was just a hippy burn-out boulderer.

[kevbone]

Religion sucks, God sucks. What you got to say to that?

[ericb]

Religion sucks, God sucks. What you got to say to that?

 

you are going to be dead a lot longer than you are going to be alive.....better hope you are right

[ClimbingPanther]

I'm sure boulderers have respect for alpinists, right? It just doesn't go both ways I guess.

[tvashtarkatena]

Just a second...Bllaaahhhhhgghhhh!!!!

 

Sorry about that.

 

My comment was targeted mainly at an odiously sanctimonious, opportunistic voyeur. I had to use strong medicine on the prick.

 

On a more general note, this is a climbing forum, not the 700 Club. That thread had long outlasted it's usefulness, for observers, for the family, for everyone. Most of us have quietly concluded that the climbers are not coming off that mountain alive. The families have a website where people can offer their prayers. Fine. Go and offer a prayer if that's your thing. But I'm not going to sit and be preached to on a climbing forum, especially by non-climbing idiots, and that's what that thread had become. It's seems to me that it's time to put the nitpicking chatter and false hopes, at least on this website, to bed and let the families get on with their grieving.

 

I've been through this personally, having had a best friend and primary climbing partner killed (I was not with him at the time, however). I felt strongly that what was happening was no longer support, but an intrusion.

[DirtyHarry]

I want the best of both worlds, I'm going to convert to Mormonism and get ten wives when I'm alive then convert to Islam before I die and get 100 virgins in heaven.

[tvashtarkatena]

Religion sucks, God sucks. What you got to say to that?

 

you are going to be dead a lot longer than you are going to be alive.....better hope you are right

 

So we should believe, just in case? Sounds kind of self serving.

[tvashtarkatena]

I want the best of both worlds, I'm going to convert to Mormonism and get ten wives when I'm alive then convert to Islam before I die and get 100 virgins in heaven.

 

Move to Mormon country and you can have 10 virgins right now.

Edited December 20, 2006 by tvashtarkatena

[ClimbingPanther]

That thread had long outlasted it's usefulness, for observers, for the family, for everyone. Most of us have quietly concluded that the climbers are not coming off that mountain alive.

 

Definitely got a point there I was about to say "that's enough already!" when it got locked before I could say it.

 

Oh, and thanks for the personal note/story. I'm sorry to hear that.

Edited December 20, 2006 by ClimbingPanther

[tvashtarkatena]

It was in the 80s. Shit happens. Unfortunately, sometimes shitty shit happens.

[jaee]

Religion sucks, God sucks. What you got to say to that?

 

you are going to be dead a lot longer than you are going to be alive.....better hope you are right

 

Not in my belief system. Funny how that works....

 

I deny your reality and subsitute my own.

[JayB]

Religion sucks, God sucks. What you got to say to that?

 

you are going to be dead a lot longer than you are going to be alive.....better hope you are right

 

Hey - it's Pascal's Wager.

 

More on this argument here:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/

 

Not an argument that I ultimately found convincing, but it's interesting to see how an especially intelligent guy tried to reconcile faith and reason.

 

 

[Clavote]

I want the best of both worlds, I'm going to convert to Mormonism and get ten wives when I'm alive then convert to Islam before I die and get 100 virgins in heaven.

 

Move to Mormon country and you can have 10 virgins right now.

 

Utah has a habit of simulating virginity to conform to the religious norms of society there.

 

Some of those "virgins" are pretty wild and best of all, they remain virginal.

[cj001f]

you are going to be dead a lot longer than you are going to be alive.....better hope you are right

 

Reincarnation, bitch

[tvashtarkatena]

you are going to be dead a lot longer than you are going to be alive.....better hope you are right

 

We've all been nonexistent a lot longer than we've been alive already, and it doesn't seem to have done us any harm.

[ericb]

Religion sucks, God sucks. What you got to say to that?

 

you are going to be dead a lot longer than you are going to be alive.....better hope you are right

 

So we should believe, just in case? Sounds kind of self serving.

 

No - but it might be worth a little time researching. The claims of Christianity, if true have eternal implications. It's very easy to take note of the state of the world, and observe Jesus' followers here in the US, and want nothing to do with it.

 

There are a lot of questions, that the Bible, and if their honest, Christians can't answer. The difference between Christianity and many other of the world religions is that the founder, Jesus got nothing on this earth....just tortured. Hard to say that he created this wacky school of thought for his own personal gain. It's easy to get hung up on questions about the existence of evil, pain, etc., but ultimately the believability of Christianity doesn't stem from it's ability/inability to answer tough questions.....it hinges on a person, his life, and ultimately his resurrection.

 

There is a body of extrabiblical historical writings and archeological findings, that support the gospels, equal/greater to any other event/person in antiquity. While there are many out there with a blind faith, there are many that have made a very researched and educated decision to have faith in what they can understand rather than focus on what they can't.

 

We've all got more to do than we have time for, and it's understandible to just dismiss the whole thing - to rightly condemn the behavior of folks to try and force their beliefs on other people...."shove it down your throat" if you will. There are a lot of Christians that do things extremely contrary to their professed beliefs, which should rightly cast doubt on their belief system.

 

If their's one thing that most climbers understand, it's weighing risks and managing risks. We plan our gear and invest our research in such a way as to manage risk. Whether it's taking the time to put in GPS waypoints for a hard-to-find descent, taking more food....sacrificing a pound of weight to bring a stove that will maintain hydration, etc. In my opinion, and, in my personal experience, the consequences at stake warranted a closer look. Each person should take the same personal inventory.

 

Yes....you know a lot of stupid Christians. You know a lot that can't articulate what they believe and why they believe it. There are many hypocrites....pumping both anti-gay legislation and their gay prostitute boyfriend in the same week. They have pat answers to really tough questions. They've said shitty unloving things to you, and to others. They've done terrible things to people under the banner of the church. But none of those things changes what Jesus said - the rules are the same today as they were 2000 years ago.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2006 by ericb

[tvashtarkatena]

Appreciate the sentiments, but you should first know that, as a former Catholic, I'm pretty familiar with Christianity and the gospels.

 

In my view, belief in God has nothing to do weighing risks, as does climbing; it has to do with raw truth, even if that truth is tough to take. Some believe, some don't, some don't know, some don't really think about it much. I don't believe, and it is the most informed and contemplated decisions I've ever made.

 

As for the historical basis for the gospels; we know that many Biblical figures, including Christ, existed, but the historical accuracy of what actually occured during that time is sketchy at best, and hard evidence of miracles, such as the resurrection, is either non-existent or highly questionable. Most of today's Christian doctrine was created long after Christ's death.

 

Many religious leaders have faced persecution, not just Christ. Mojammed had to flee Mecca for Medina because of persecution. Does the fact that Mojammed was a wealthy merchant and later became a political leader make him less of a legitimate prophet then Jesus? Christ's persecution and asceticism, by themselves, make him no more or less legitimate than any other leader of a movement. His message was, in itself, mostly a positive one, but also perhaps a naive one, considering humanity with all it's faults. His persecution could just as easily indicate that he was not politically savvy enough for his time to survive past his 33rd birthday.

 

In any case, Jesus and God are two different things. One was a man, the other is pure conjecture.

[LandShark]

you are going to be dead a lot longer than you are going to be alive.....better hope you are right

 

Reincarnation, bitch

 

well, then the longer you live the longer you suffer and you should be striving for enlightenment ... which would explain why you waste so much time on this fucking web site ... because you like suffering.