tyree Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 "Group think" mentality is what were talking about here. Dont get me wrong Ive toally clipped every bolt Ive ever seen at Index. Stuff there seems to get bolted when nobody's looking or something. Look what happened on Centerfold. I thoght we were goin ta see a hangin' skull Ask DC and I bet he could give us the skinny on the BCB bolts. I heard that it might be Greg Childs. That just what I heard, not trying to start some gossip or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 not trying to start some gossip or anything. But you are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Ive climbed it twice, and one time there were five people who climbed it that day, so thats seven last year plus your three makes 10. Now can we chop the bolts on the crack???? The other bolts up higher arent essential but that would be a pretty bold lead. Blind gear placements with super pump and a wee bit of exposure at the top. Are we talking about the same route? Are we talking about a bolted crack at index, or at smith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Sunshine has one lonely bolt, way the help up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Sunshine has one lonely bolt, way the help up there Is there gear there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyree Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Ive climbed it twice, and one time there were five people who climbed it that day, so thats seven last year plus your three makes 10. Now can we chop the bolts on the crack???? The other bolts up higher arent essential but that would be a pretty bold lead. Blind gear placements with super pump and a wee bit of exposure at the top. Are we talking about the same route? Are we talking about a bolted crack at index, or at smith? I was talking about Index. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyree Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 not trying to start some gossip or anything. But you are! I was actually calling out for an answer, or confirmation of the matterat hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 I have seen some bolts I question. Usually one bolt per route, here or there. But this is frickin retarted. Who ever did this needs a lesson in proper ethics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 bolted crack: place a cam, clip a bolt, place a cam, clip a bolt.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 bolted crack: place a cam, clip a bolt, place a cam, clip a bolt.... Holy crap. That makes me want to puke..... Where is that? Chop.. chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Fast Draw on Sentinel Spire, Colorado National Monument. it was originally bolted by some wanker named Layton Kor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Fast Draw on Sentinel Spire, Colorado National Monument. it was originally bolted by some wanker named Layton Kor. Let me guess, wankers (just sporto's)walk up to it and lead it all on bolts. Has Layton Kor received ten lashes with a wet noodle with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enelson Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 bolted crack: how bout having two bolts within less than 7 feet off the ground, don't want to deck when you trip putting your shoes on i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 I suppose he could even be more careful and place a green Camelot even lower so he would not fall over when putting his harness on. What a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvallisclimb Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) Fast Draw on Sentinel Spire, Colorado National Monument. it was originally bolted by some wanker named Layton Kor. I don't think it matters who did it, its stupid non the less. Times have changed, camming devices are the norm, those should really be chopped. Edited December 13, 2006 by corvallisclimb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 That's a sweet example Frosty, but I have two questions: When did Kor do the FA? Since it may predate the common use of cams. Where are these photos on the route? Enelson is be an e-ass and Kevbone is being a bonehead and they're both assuming (have either of you climbed this route?) that its the first pitch and not some wide ledge off the ground, which could justify the low bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) That's a sweet example Frosty, but I have two questions: When did Kor do the FA? Since it may predate the common use of cams. Where are these photos on the route? Enelson is be an e-ass and Kevbone is being a bonehead and they're both assuming (have either of you climbed this route?) that its the first pitch and not some wide ledge off the ground, which could justify the low bolts. mtnfreak, I couldn’t give a shit if its 2000 feet of the deck. There appears to have sufficient gear in from of your face for a bomber anchor. In this pic, these bolts are ridiculous and not needed. When? Doesn’t matter when the FA was. Bolting crack has NEVER been the norm, no matter what the time period was. I see nothing to justify these bolts, other than being a moron. Edited December 13, 2006 by kevbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shapp Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) even if layton placed the origionals, these have been replaced. The question would be then what dumbass felt the need to pull the old bolts and replaced them? On another note about bolted cracks and bolted natural gear placements, a certain route setter once told me his ethic when discussing routes at Spring Mt. (oregon) that (to paraphrase the conversation) he bolted natural gear placements so that the routes would be accessible to the masses and so they wouldn't have to go buy a bunch of expensive gear to climb his routes, and to make them utterly safe (I disagree that bolts are inherently safer anyway). What a crock of horse shit! I have climbed many of his routes and found numerous bomb proof placements and one fully bolted route (Flaked Out) goes nearly all clean with bomber gear except for maybe 1 or 2 bolts. He has also put bolts on a pure crack route up at the point where it gets wide (5 to 6 inch) I guess to also eliminate the need to carry bigger gear. Bogus I say! and crossed pure crack climbs with bolted routes, put up bolteed routes that are wihin arms reach of independent crack routes. Edited December 13, 2006 by shapp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) even if layton placed the origionals, these have been replaced. The question would be then what dumbass felt the need to pull the old bolts and replaced them? On another note about bolted cracks and bolted natural gear placements, a certain route setter once told me his ethic when discussing routes at Spring Mt. (oregon) that (to paraphrase the conversation) he bolted natural gear placements so that the routes would be accessible to the masses and so they wouldn't have to go buy a bunch of expensive gear to climb his routes, and to make them utterly safe (I disagree that bolts are inherently safer anyway). What a crock of horse shit! I have climbed many of his routes and found numerous bomb proof placements and one fully bolted route (Flaked Out) goes nearly all clean with bomber gear except for maybe 1 or 2 bolts. He has also put bolts on a pure crack route up at the point where it gets wide (5 to 6 inch) I guess to also eliminate the need to carry bigger gear. Bogus I say! and crossed pure crack climbs with bolted routes, put up bolteed routes that are wihin arms reach of independent crack routes. Holy shit, I just commented on RC.com (I never actually do work) about the same thing. I had a conversation with Kevin (developer) about this 6 inch crack he bolted. Its in the first big wide area you come to. He said “what bolted crack” I then lead it on gear. Also Phopes Direct, way down towards the end. 10.d. is also bolted crack. I love climbing there because its fun. Just leave you rack and ethics in the car. Oh yeah, my partner and I climbed Flack Off entirely on gear, if you stay off the the right in the beginning and use long slings the rope drag ant that bad. What a joke. It was much more exciting on gear, thats for sure. Edited December 13, 2006 by kevbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 kinda like orbit, why replace such bolts. there is gear nearby. even if layton placed the origionals, these have been replaced. The question would be then what dumbass felt the need to pull the old bolts and replaced them? oh yeah, cuz they look scary and climbing should be SAFE for the masses cuz they may sue me cuz i thought about replacing them and have the means to but I didn't cuz I am a selfish climber who only climbs to waste time and go crazy places outside in nature, which is dangerous cuz there are mt creatures that may attempt to catch me. Whew... bolted cracks today...are lame. I know I have a couple stray bolts in precarious places that have near gear placements... but with all do respect, failing there w/o the bolts nearly killed/hurt me so I chose to put the bolt in...mistake...? ...probably. definitely lame. My thought was its one fN bolt near a crack. (which is on some little rock in a place that rarely gets traffic and I can see license plates in the snow creek pking lot from the stoop.)... If it really bothers you then go remove the bolts next to the crack in the pics. I think they are lame bolts but have no time nor great need for hangers. Fuk i am rambling and can't wait for my new snow tires to arrive here in Leav so I can go out and back to the w-side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 mtnfreak, I couldn’t give a shit if its 2000 feet of the deck. There appears to have sufficient gear in from of your face for a bomber anchor. In this pic, these bolts are ridiculous and not needed. When? Doesn’t matter when the FA was. Bolting crack has NEVER been the norm, no matter what the time period was. I see nothing to justify these bolts, other than being a moron. Kev, you just articulated your ignorance very well. Bolting OW has been happening since the 1960's. These include the not-so-insignificant First Ascents of the East Face of the Keeler Needle and the South Face of Mt. Conness, both of which feature bolt protected off width pitches. Whatever happened with understanding history before taking action in the present? My questions about this pitch are completely valid - Kor may have bolted this pitch to prevent scarring the crack with multiple piton placements. Since he has a reputation for only placing bolts when he felt they were absolutely necessary to prevent death, I do wonder and want to learn why they were placed here. So rather than be the moron you descibed above, I'm asking for more information and withholding my final judgement until I've heard more. Its called research, you should try it sometime. With all that wind-up and mud-slinging done, I do agree that these bolts appear superfluous. I wonder if it was re-bolted to follow Kor's original bolting methodology (which is a lot more run-out than in Frosty's pictures), or if it had been retrobolted. Retrobolting will have me as pissed off as Kevbone seems to be now - and only my respect for what Kor accomplished is moderating my responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enelson Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 That's a sweet example Frosty, but I have two questions: When did Kor do the FA? Since it may predate the common use of cams. Where are these photos on the route? Enelson is be an e-ass and Kevbone is being a bonehead and they're both assuming (have either of you climbed this route?) that its the first pitch and not some wide ledge off the ground, which could justify the low bolts. e-ass, gives me a great idea to pitch to apple, for the i-sit (or i-shit), a mp3 playing toilet! either way, even if it is a ledge, how could it possibly justify bolts within two feet of each other! don't be silly mtnfreak, i am not making fun of you, but i will play along. your feeling are probably hurt because it was you who bolted it, and you were real scared up there on the ledge and want two bolts for protectiion at the belay, not rap bolts mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradclimbguy Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 blah blah blah spray, blah blah so and so is dumb, blah blah spray blah, screw you too, blah spray blah spray blah. That about sums up the last three pages. Excellent example of another bolted crack. This was a cool conversation until every armchair pilot decided to blather on about ethics and bolting and non-bolting... I think there is already a long boring thread on that elsewhere. So far we've listed the Smith Rock bolted Crack, Black Cat Bone, Angora Grotto and Gorrilla of my dreams at index, Fast Draw at Sentinal spire. I know of a few at the sinks in Wyoming I can list when I get home to my guide book, Dana's Arch at index is bolted and we've got a few routes with bolt on holds. What else people got??? (other than drivel that is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enelson Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 armchair pilot, that's good, the i-shit can have arms! (it is ok to laugh once in awhile tcg) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradclimbguy Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 armchair pilot, that's good, the i-shit can have arms! (it is ok to laugh once in awhile tcg) ok, but only this one time, hahaha Another good one I read somewhere was for boulderers or "Pebble Wrestlers". That one actually made me laugh quite a bit but only just a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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