Girl Repellent

[specialed]

My old man used to climb and guide with Donini for Leavenworth guides. I spent half my childhhod hanging out with those goofballs in Leavenworth. I probably met all you guys when I was a kid, or atleast you probably know my dad.

[rockrat16]

Helloooooo Gentlemen! First my credentials - I am a trad, waterfall ice (my favorite!), glacier and alpine climber. And yes, I do lead. When I'm not working I climb, plan climbs, workout for my next climb and chat about gear. Climbing is the most important part of my life. All my men, since I have been climbing (6 years,) have been climbers. I went through a lot of them, but whether they are climbers or not, compatability is a big thing. I had a boyfriend who I climbed with who almost killed me several times because he wasn't very focused. I had another climber boyfriend who dumped me because I was a better climber than he was. I guess he didn't have much self esteem.

I don't plan on having children if I ever get married because hopefully my hubby will be a climber and I don't want to have to give up any time climbing.

Men are not the only ones who get stinky climbing! I will carry all my own gear in my pack because I have perfected the art of packing light. So don't even offer to carry anything, I can do it myself.

I just thought I would let you know that there are women out there who devote as much time and energy to climbing as the men do. All of you may not find one to fall in love with, but we do exist!!

[erik]

R U LOOKING FOR A DATE OR SOMETHING!? I AM AVAILABLE ON TUESDAYS AND WENSDAYS!

[pope]

Hey Rockrat!

One day you'll meet a man who will help you realize that you don't give up that much to have kids...my kid is infinitely more of an inspiration to me than a mountain could ever be, but prior to her arrival, I never could have imagined myself saying this. But then, prior to getting married, there was just a parade of Belay Bettys marching through my life and you know what? Most of them were really stupid. Yes, they had focus...on just two things: themselves and my cookies, if you know what I mean. I grew tired of selfish girls who would just use me for my anatomical correctness, who would demand performance but who couldn't carry on a conversation about anything but Gri-Gri's and stick-clips. Yaaaaaawwwnnn. My wife thinks 90% of climbers are A-pipes, and that mountain climbing is a bunch of nonsense. More often than not, I have to agree.

[rockrat16]

Hey Pope! I think it is wonderful that you have found happiness with your family. But don't judge me by a few paragraphs. Believe me, there is more to me than what I have written. I just wanted the guys to know that there are women who take climbing seriously and do it for themselves, not to please their men.

Also, all the women I know who used to climb and had children don't climb anymore. And they wish they could. Maybe, YOU didn't give up any climbing when your non-climbing wife had a child. I appreciate that you are trying to help me see both sides of the coin, but I made the decision myself. I don't need a man to help me realize this.

Also, I apologize if I sounded like a personal ad. I am in a very happy relationship and madly in love with my boyfriend who is also my main climbing partner. I'm not looking for dates.

I really came to the bulletin board to find some beta and got sucked into this thread.

One last thing, Pope, if everyone had the same opinions, it sure would be a really boring world. Perhaps the only reason the Belay Betty's would use you for your anatomical correctness was because that was all you had to offer. Maybe you were the big "Yaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnn."

[haireball]

Dwayner,

nope - Katie finally married Tim Birnham - the forest service firefighter she was going with about the time you're describing. My wife is (was?) Jeff Splittgerber's widow, Karen. Don't know if you knew Jeff, but we all guided for Jim, then for Katie after she took over LAG. Jeff had the first parapente distributorship and school in Washington, and was killed flying a prototype chute in 1988. I married Karen in the spring of'91. Katie had a leg crushed by rockfall in Colorado back in about '87 or so, and has been unable to climb since. She has however, defied the original prognosis, kept the leg, and walks unassisted. She and Tim are back in Washington as of last fall, living in Cashmere.

[Dwayner]

Haireball! Thanks for the history! I knew Jeff (although I didn't have the pleasure of working with him much.....I was usually on glacier duty) and I did hear about Katie's leg. Oy! There was a strange curse lurking around the original Leavenworth Alpine Guides. I think less than half of us are still alive. First there was Dave Stutzman, a fellow I guided with quite a bit who was certainly one of the best alpinist going when he met his demise in an avalanche (in Montana, they say). Then Der Sportsmann in L-worth burned down where we had our office and our gear depot. Then Karl Schneider, guide and manager dies (apparently also in an avalanche, in Peru). Then Jeff, then Bob Nelson (big screamer on Mt. Goode?) and fortunately Katie survived her calamity. I never worked for the guide service after Donini sold it to Katie: I was in Israel during the next couple of summers. Also toned down the intensity of my climbing fanaticism, finished graduate school, and took to climbing only part-time, and that's probably why I'm still alive, I suppose.

Anyway, raise a glass to our dearly departed guiding buddies!

- Dwayner

P.S. Would your first name happen to be Curt/Curtis?

[This message has been edited by Dwayner (edited 06-07-2001).]

[Guest]

Sister Rockrat! There ARE other girls on board here although we typically take quite a bit of abuse (to be expected). But you, gurlfren, what's with:

"Men are not the only ones who get stinky climbing! I will carry all my own gear in my pack because I have perfected the art of packing light. So don't even offer to carry anything, I can do it myself."

Rockrat! You're setting yourself up big time around here with statements like that! Not only is it a veritable goldmine for double entendres and crude rhymes by the likes of "pope", but it doesn't sound like something an experienced climbing woman would say. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the guys might think you're a male lurker generating spray! Get a grip, lady! And if it's all true, welcome to the trenches and don't take anything too seriously around here!

- Donna

[rockrat16]

(Accidentally posted twice! Oops!)

[This message has been edited by rockrat16 (edited 06-07-2001).]

[specialed]

Dwayner, Karl Schneider was my old man's best friend and climbing buddy. Kind of sucked ass when he died in Peru. My old man quit climbing seriously after that, which also sucked. Maybe you knew him, his name is Don Meath. Anyway, just thought I'd ask. -P

[jenaya413]

I've wanted to rock climb since I was 18, and driving cross-country, watched people dance up Devil's Tower.

I had a group of friends (all male) that climbed and I begged for years for them to teach me, to take me with them. They always yes-yesed me, but I never actually touched rock with any of them, going so far as to leave me at campsites when they suddenly decided to find the nearest crag. One of those guys was my boyfriend. I owned my harness for almost a year before I used it and I didn't hang on to the boyfriend nearly that long.

Since I met my partner and started climbing about a year ago, I've been relatively insatiable. I don't get out nearly as much as I want to, and am anxious to learn. I greatly prefer trad climbing to sport, and can't even get interested in the gym. I've been urging to boyfriend to take up climbing so that I can do more, and not feel like such a shit when I leave him behind for a day or four.

Some of the issues are real. I don't do well on really long approaches. I can't carry nearly as much as my partner. I think women have different fear issues - I wasn't scared to climb at first, my first spook was on like my 10th trad climb. Some of this is personal, but I think a lot of it is par for the course, gender-wise.

I think more girls would climb if they felt like they could. After the early rejections from my friends, I started to think maybe girls really *couldn't* climb. If you want your girlfriend to even consider climbing, you have to be encouraging, not patronizing. Flexible, but not a pushover or a drill seargant. Sometimes, she's not going to be willing to make a 3, 5, or 10 mile approach (especially at first!!), and you're gonna have to compromise. She's not going to start out at a 5.10 and you'll have to suck in your ego and climb at her learning curve. I think you'll find the more accessible you make it, the better the chance she'll try it, and enjoy it. It's worth it to be able to do something you love with someone you love.

On another note, I find the climbing community to be very insular, and people tend to be even unfriendly to beginning climbers, seeing them as poseurs, followers of a (admitted) trend. That stuff is really discouraging, and I think some chicks aren't willing to do battle with it.

[Dwayner]

Special Ed.:

Sure I know Don Meath.....a really good guy!! Haven't seen him in years. I always looked up to him as a smart, sensible and safe climber. I was always under the impression that he thought I was an upitty young smart-ass (which I was and still am) and it's too bad that he's not climbing anymore. I hope you're trying to learn some things from him because I'm sure he has a lot of good stories and expertise to share (and probably some great classic gear to borrow!) Tell him "Iceman" (a flash from his past) sends his friendly greetings. Karl Schneider was a terrific fellow. I recall he had been successful in business and dropped his career to be more involved in climbing at which he quickly excelled. It was truly tragic when he disappeared because he had only been married perhaps six months to a very wonderful girl. Another similar tragedy for which I'm sure your dad would remember (I recall that she was one of his pals) was that of the lovely Nancy Jackson. Nancy had a successful career as a scientist working for Weyerheauser and ditched it to pursue her love for mountaineering. Within a couple of years, she was a professional guide with RMI and a veteran of several expeditions. She lost her life in an avalanche on Manaslu(?) A couple of losses like that could really discourage anyone! I found that some of my old mountaineering buddies have migrated into different, but somewhat safer adrenalin sports. There was a trend a while back where you went from climbing to bicycle racing, and then the transition seemed to be from climbing to wind-surfing as the replacement passion-satisfier of choice. The great Rick Powell turned to sailing, last I heard.

Anyone who has climbed for a good long time will probably have at least a small list of friends who never made it back alive. I've known quite a few, so play it relatively safe and live long like Fred Beckey, Big Lou and the other great survivors!!!! And good luck to you, young man!!!

- Dwayner

[This message has been edited by Dwayner (edited 06-08-2001).]

[specialed]

Right on! I plan to climb for many many years, ala Fred Becky and Gray Thompson, have many adventures in the mountains, and brush my teeth twice a day.

[This message has been edited by specialed (edited 06-08-2001).]

[LhotseDreems]

I don't know Donna, I have to agree with Rockrat. I carry my own pack, too. Approaches are a bitch, Anayajay, but that's the price you pay. But i agree if you want to teach your girl to climb, start of slowly, make it enjoyable. Most people aren't masochists.

I climb because i enjoy it for purely selfish reasons. NOT to meet men. Infact for a long time, i refused to date climbers for that exact reason. I didn't want to be misconstrued as the chick that her boyfriend dragged up the mountain/rock. I'll admit, when i'm out in the hills i always look at other females with a little scrutiny. I love to be surprised when i meet a real climber-chick that takes the sharp end. Unfortunately it's a rare thing, i've discovered.

I've since given up (thankfully), and met a compatible climber that i enjoy heading out with at every opportunity. We climb when our schedules coincide, and i give him no grief for heading out to go climbing for the weekend or even 3 weeks. It's a the same bug i'm infected with... and i can understand his desire. When you share a passion with your significant other, i think it makes it much easier to co-exist.

Pope, don't forget to zip it up.

[pope]

Hey Rockrat,

Couple of things: firstly, you misunderstood me when you inferred that I climb just as much as I did prior to having a family. Finding time to climb is certainly more difficult than before, but I wouldn't have it any other way. If your friends miss their free-and-easy climbing life to the point of regretting the choices they've made, maybe it's because because they're too self-absorbed to recognize how incredibly wonderful their children are. And if their children are obnoxious little poops, the acorn falls close to the tree: your friends should stop having children.

Now, I've got to agree with recent analysis which concluded that your gender is quite ambiguous. I'm privy to top-secret analytical information and tools which, when applied to some of your statements, suggest that you're really just some man dissembling femininity, trying to usurp Donna's preeminent position on this site. That's right, I've scrutinized your posts for statistically signaficant grammatic and syntactic structure, anomaly and synonymy, and you're not fooling anybody! In fact, there's a very real possibility that your initials are really M.A. or P.P. (guys who post under other names who are always trying to be clever--but you probably know that don't you?).

And the comment suggesting that maybe I'm the big Yaaaawwwwnnnn....guess what, I'll bet if I spent time with you, I'd need coffee and beer ('cause you're probably both dull and ugly).

[jblakley]

Wow, the spray be sharp today mon! I'm going to counterpoint you Pope. Using my waayyy scientific she-man algorithm (which is actually some munged up code from the Space Shuttle's guidance module) I have deduced that either:

a) Ms Top Step is actually a Mr. Top Step

b) Donna is actually Mark Twight sans medication.

or

c) Donna is an ex-member of the now defunct East German Woman's Greco-Roman Wrestling Team.

I do agree however that having children is a much more honorable undertaking than climbing. I certainly don't think the decision not to have kids is wrong however. Rockrat is indefatigably (had to work that into a sentence once today) a chick. Rock on Rockrat! Pope go beat your kids :-)

[haireball]

so Dwayner's the Iceman -- yes, I remember you - seems I spent a night at your place once when some outfit invited me to present a slideshow, then double-scheduled someone else without doing me the courtesy of notification. I remember meeting Don Meath a few times, but never knew him well. I only knew Karl Schneider briefly - kind of a latecomer to LAG. I never heard about Bob Nelson - he was a good guy, as I recall - excellent instructor.

Ladies, I have to agree with Pope on the kids issue. Short-roping my youngest son (age7) up the right side of Icicle Buttress last summer was too much fun. Maybe a dozen or so 30-foot pitches...

And gentlemen, I believe it's a waste of time to try to teach a girlfriend or spouse to climb. It's not that hard to find real women climbers - and trust me on this - it's definitely worth it.

 

[allison]

I ran across this thread while I was looking for something else and thought interesting enuf to bring up top.

 

Dwayner, I know you wanted inputs from the guys on this topic, but I'm going to put in my $.02 anyhow. Guys who are serious climbers are hard to date, for a number of reasons. I tend to avoid dating them.

 

[ 06-23-2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: allison ]

[MounTAIN_Woman]

Like Allison, I can't resist putting in my $0.02 either. The mountains are part of me, and I need to get out and connect as often as I can. It wasn't a boyfriend that got me into it. I started climbing and backpacking in high school for the adventure of it. I didn't do much in college, but afterward, met a hometown guy, crag climbed every weekend, got married, moved west and started climbing "real mountains". The marriage didn't last, but it wasn't the climbing that undid it, although he had gotten tired of climbing and wouldn't come out with me anymore.

 

I don't agree that teaching girlfriends/wives to climb is a waste of time. What is a waste of time is dating and putting energy into a relationship with someone who does not share your values regarding not only climbing, but also children, money, religion, politics, etc. If someone truly wants to learn and appreciate your passion, then why not take them out and show them the ropes? As they gain appreciation of the sport, you may get a few more days in the mountains out of it, and a supportive partner!

 

Before taking a newbie out, make sure they are in shape for it (weight training, aerobic activity), and keep it fun, scenic, and short!

[Dennis_Harmon]

Dwayner, I have to hand it to you, lad, your crafty ability to divert the conversation from something as vital as rampant bolting, to something as mundane as 'getting laid because you're a climber.' Just because you and Mr. Puget had a spat you're both going to sulk off and then honor us by coming back with this B.S. thread? I guess there's just no end to nepotism here in the Great Pacific Northwest. Dennis

[texplorer]

Who cares, this is a climbing website. Please don't post another line about how you can't find an alpine hooker or how you women can haul all your own crap. The answer is yes there are girls who climb -they are out climbing right now while your sappy ass is on here; some even can carry all their own crap and climb way harder than you.

[Figger_Eight]

Hey Harmon...pay attention. He posted that LAST YEAR.

[sk]

Can't resist... I started climbing 3 years ago, after my children were born. I learned to climb from a woman, and then my husband picked it up. Noteably, he is way better than I am, and has picked it up faster. I'm working on the long aproach thing The only thing I realy pout about is that my hubby gets to climb cooler places than me cause he cranks harder. But darn it, I will catch him... I am learning to lead, learning trad. I intend to climb mountains and ski, some day I will surf too. All in good time

[RURP]

This is RURP:

 

Harmon and Texasguy: You must be very new to this cc.com. The topic and Dwayner's (and most of the other) posts were from last year if you choose to check the dates before you make your statements. I thought it was funny then and it seems that it was revived over a year later just today by Allison who thought it needed further discussion.

As for: "Who cares, this is a climbing website. Please don't post another line about...."

I suppose that you could start your own web-site and forbid and condemn whatever you don't find appealing.

RURP has spoken.

 

[ 06-23-2002, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: RURP ]

[Dave_Schuldt]

Thanks Alison for bringing this up again. This is one of the most inteligent discussions I have seen on this site. It's hard to stay out late and socialise if you decide to get up at 4 or 5 am to go climbing or skiing.