Alternative-Energy Transportation

[ClimbingPanther]

I want to start an informative thread about ways we can get around without using a gas-only full-size vehicle.

 

Specifically for me, I would like to find a better way to make my 7-mile 13-minute (car) commute to work every day using either less (than a regular car) or no gasoline. Since I and most people will never go to work EVERY day under our own power (walk, run, bicycle, etc. = smell like the gym when you get to work), I want to start a discussion on alternative means of getting there that are better than the status quo.

 

Let's talk over the pros and cons of each method [electric-assist bicycle, moped, hybrid, anything else whatsoever], especially the cost/benefit aspect.

 

I would find it especially useful to know what some of you are I'm sure already doing.

 

Keep this an information-heavy thread, and you will not only help me to make a difference, but others can use this thread as a resource for information on how they can make a difference too. Thanks!

[underworld]

motorcycle

[ClimbingPanther]

So, how much did you pay for it, and what mileage does it get? Also, is insurance more? Liability, collision, comp., etc.? Thanks!

[Weekend_Climberz]

They just need to make a pill that cures Americans of the laziness. Get off your ass and walk/pedal/skip/run/jog/skateboard/luge a few days a week to work. If you pick one for each day of the week, you'll never get bored. The real secret is how to not have to work to finance whatever you want to do.

[ClimbingPanther]

14 miles roundtrip, my only option for an everyday purely me-powered method is biking. I do that once a week, but it takes me an hour roundtrip and I'm sweaty and gross when I get to work. There must be a better way.

Anyway, I'm not looking for justification for it, I just want an easier way which doesn't impact the environment as much.

Besides, even if I could, some people just can't go to work any of those ways, and I want this thread to be a resource for them, not a finger-wagging session.

Edited October 11, 2006 by ClimbingPanther

[tvashtarkatena]

motorcycle

 

Ditto. 45 to 60 mpg. Easy to park. Cheap insurance. Carpool lanes. WAY more fun than a car. Less resources used in their manufacture.

 

Used bikes are cheap ($1500-3K should get you a decent one) depending on what your looking for. You can get a great new one, powerful enough for the freeway, for $5K-8K.

 

PS: Whimp out and get an electric vest for winter. You won't regret it.

[counterfeitfake]

If all you care about is transportation, you can get a very cheap small motorcycle (or dare I say, even a scooter?). I believe many 250 cc engines can get upwards of 70 or 80 mpg. No motorcycle insurance required in Washington but if you want it, it should be cheap because motorcycle insurance climbs sharply with engine size.

 

Even if you want something with more style or power, it'll save you on gas. I've owned 600 cc and 1100 cc bikes that have both gotten above 40 mpg.

[underworld]

i've got a couple of 650cc bikes. sv650 and a klr. for some reason they are is considered a beginner bike - but i disagree. annnyway - milage is upper 40's to 50. insurance is like 30 or so a month. (i only insure one of them) unfortunately, at least my, insurance doesn't count them towards a multi-line discount

 

sure, smaller 250's and such will keep highway speeds but there is deminishing returns with safety. sometimes you need to get out of the way w/ the throttle.

[jmace]

Rain, thats why Motorcycles are not popular-in the winter

 

Are you serious you dont need ins on motorcycles in Washington..?

 

 

Ins here on motorcycles is crazy, waay more than my truck.

 

If your work is too far to walk, why dont you move closer ?

[DanielHarro]

As a fireman / paramedic my stance is different. I have been on countless "donor cycle" accidents over the years some were the drivers fault like excessive speed, but a lot were the fault of other moroists who dont pay attention to people on motorcycles and dont treat them as cars. When you get in a motorcycle accident you get BAD hurt / killed, when you get in a car accident you get Bad Hurt, when you are in a SUV or Truck you just get hurt. You will never see me on a motorcycle of any sort.

Yes I drive a SUV a Toyota 4-runner (good safety ratings with airbags) and I get 22mpg, sure I pay more in gas, but what is my life worth? I have seen a lot of accidents and that is my feelings on the matter.... Maybe someday things will be safe, but untill then SUV here I come.

[jmace]

Thats crazy dan, I am surprised you climb.

[PeterC]

Good on you for trying to make the world a better place. I know you've given reasons why you don't want to bike every day, but as an every-day bike commuter, I wonder if something could be done to improve your biking experience to the point that you COULD do it all the time. One hour for 7mi seems slow - perhaps there is a better route for you. Maybe you already know, but most bike shops have a free map of Seattle bike routes which could help you make this determination. I find that as long as I don't have any big hills I don't sweat too much, so I just bike in my work clothes (perhaps a less hilly route for you?). Other folk I work with keep a stash of work clothes in the office and switch into them whenever they get in. Perhaps there's a gym nearby if you need to shower when you get in...

 

Rain can be a drag for bikes, but if you have rain pants and a jacket (who doesn't) + fenders and overbooties you can ride anywhere without getting wet.

 

Finally, (although this isn't a practical solution if you already own your house or share w/ someone who works far from where you work) living near where you work makes earth-friendly commuting a lot easier.

 

And of course, biking every day gets you in better shape for climbing...

[ClimbingPanther]

Good suggestions, Peter.

hehe, confusing info corrected. 7 mi. was one-way, 1 hour was roundtrip

 

I did just buy a little rack two days ago for the back of my bike so I don't have to use a backpack anymore. That's one of the worst places for sweating.

Edited October 11, 2006 by ClimbingPanther

[ketch]

Word on Peters post. Often just rethinking your approach is what is needed. I used to work with a guy that drove on Mondays and Fridays. He would cart in spare clothes and stuff monday. Then he biked the rest and took all the dirty stuff on friday. Not a purist bike commute but way better than a total car one.

 

On another side I have a Dr friend that has one of those electric assist hubs for his mountain bike. He rides to work using as much assist as he can get. Then works it on the way home. He swares by the thing.

[murraysovereign]

I've employed a variety of transportation strategies over the years, including just driving everywhere, and cyling everywhere, and a mix of driving and cycling, to now where I hardly drive or cycle anywhere because almost everything is within walking distance. My commute now consists of walking about 1 1/2 blocks from home to work. It's about 2 blocks to the bank, 4 blocks to the pub, there are two grocery stores within 2 blocks, as are my accountant's office and the hardware store and the library and...

 

I'm in the process of retiring my 4X4 pick-up, and replacing it with a Smart car. It's only a two-seater, but probably 95 percent of my driving is done alone anyhow, so I seldom even need the passenger seat. On those rare occasions when I need a truck, or a station wagon, or a van, or whatever, I can walk 2 blocks to the local Hertz outlet and rent whatever I need for the day, for less than it used to cost to fill the gas tank of my truck. And this last, I think, is where a lot of people could realize a lot of savings and efficiency.

 

Most people, when deciding on a new vehicle, look for the one that can do everything they need it to do, even if a lot of those uses are only occasional. For instance, you commute to work, for which a small econo car is adequate. But sometimes you need to haul a load of garbage or yard waste to the dump, so you need a pick-up or at least something that can tow a loaded utility trailer. And once or twice a year you like to go on a ski trip with some of your buddies, so you need a van that can carry 5 people and all their gear. So you buy the van, but because you need to haul the utility trailer once in a while, you buy the one with the bigger engine. So now you've got a full-sized van with a V-8 that can seat 6 or 8 people, and 80 or 90 percent of the time you drive it to work and back, alone. But you have no choice, right? Because once in a while you need the capacity of the larger vehicle. But do you need to own the larger vehicle? No, you just need access to the larger vehicle from time to time. So buy the commuter car, or whatever is the lightest, most economical vehicle you can get away with for 80 or 90 percent of your driving. And on those occasions when you need the larger capacity of a truck or a van, then rent one for the day, and take it back when you're done.

[DanielHarro]

Murraysovereign-

Point taken, I like your ideas!!!

[ashw_justin]

when you get in a car accident you get Bad Hurt, when you are in a SUV or Truck you just get hurt...

Yes I drive a SUV a Toyota 4-runner (good safety ratings with airbags) and I get 22mpg, sure I pay more in gas, but what is my life worth?

 

This has bothered me for a while--have you considered the fact that your reasoning for driving a large vehicle constitutes an arms race? That more big trucks on the road makes normal cars less safe? If everyone drove big trucks, would you buy a semi to feel safer?

 

This reasoning (that driving the biggest vehicle makes you safer) is probably the most common reason that people are buying SUV's. It's paranoia that someone dangerous will hit you, and you want to be bigger than them when it happens.

 

But did you ever consider that bigger vehicles are inherently more dangerous to everyone else? That if you ever mess up, you're going to instantly kill anyone you might run into, your high bumper avoiding all collision zones and going right into somebody's torso? That they could be an innocent driver who would have survived a collision with a normal car?

 

I'm not trying to attack you or anything for expressing your opinion, but it's something to consider...

[foraker]

Driving a big-ass honkin' truck with a turret and missles is easier than developing driving skills. Besides, it also provides a much needed shot of testosterone to emasculated hunter-gatherer behind the wheel.

[Chad_A]

I want to start an informative thread about ways we can get around without using a gas-only full-size vehicle.

 

Specifically for me, I would like to find a better way to make my 7-mile 13-minute (car) commute to work every day using either less (than a regular car) or no gasoline. Since I and most people will never go to work EVERY day under our own power (walk, run, bicycle, etc. = smell like the gym when you get to work), I want to start a discussion on alternative means of getting there that are better than the status quo.

 

Let's talk over the pros and cons of each method [electric-assist bicycle, moped, hybrid, anything else whatsoever], especially the cost/benefit aspect.

 

I would find it especially useful to know what some of you are I'm sure already doing.

 

Keep this an information-heavy thread, and you will not only help me to make a difference, but others can use this thread as a resource for information on how they can make a difference too. Thanks!

 

I was getting ready to respond, but then I thought, I don't know what the reason is for the "Alternative-Energy Transportation". Is it to cut personal costs (cheaper insurance, higher MPG, etc) or it is to be more envirionmentally friendly, in the vein of burning less fossil fuels?

 

The reason I'm asking is that, recently, I saw an article on mopeds in the Willamette Weekly, covering mopeds. The MPG is great, and the running costs cheap, but even the most modern 4 cycle mopeds have a very high PPM of unburned hydrocarbons in the emissions. So high, in fact, that the big SUV they compared them to had a fraction of the hydrocarbon emission, due to (probably) better a better engine management system, and emission controls. The older 2-cycle versions of mopeds were awful in this regard.

 

I'll see if I can come up with a link; not sure if the Willamette Weekly puts up their stories online.

[TBay]

when you get in a car accident you get Bad Hurt, when you are in a SUV or Truck you just get hurt...

Yes I drive a SUV a Toyota 4-runner (good safety ratings with airbags) and I get 22mpg, sure I pay more in gas, but what is my life worth?

 

This reasoning (that driving the biggest vehicle makes you safer) is probably the most common reason that people are buying SUV's. It's paranoia that someone dangerous will hit you, and you want to be bigger than them when it happens.

 

--ODE TO HARRY

 

Harry got in his car

And turned the key

Started up and headed up the L.I.E.

Too cheap to get a real car

Had a Volkswagon Rabbit

And that put an end to Harry's cheap habit

Cause the trucker couldn't stop

So the driver just took aim

And when he hit Harry

Harry burst into flames

You're dead now Harry

And you can't come back

You'd still be alive if you drove a Cadillac

 

METHOD OF DESTRUCTION

U.S.A. for M.O.D.

1987

[fenderfour]

7 miles is a difficult ride?

 

I've done the 20+ miles to work and it's not too bad. If you were to sack up and ride it, you will get more fit and ride faster.

 

If you want a motor, the little 50cc scooters get 100 mpg. Most of them are two cycle which means more pollution per gallon.

 

Electric scooters are everywhere now. With a whopping 7 miles to go, most will have the range you need.

 

And finally - I second/third/fourth getting a full-on motorcycle. I spent a year only using a motorcycle for my commute from Des Moines to Renton. It was cold, sometimes wet, but you really appreciated the car.

[lI1|1!]

45 to 60 mpg.

 

Used bikes are cheap ($1500-3K should get you a decent one)

 

insurance is like 30 or so a month.

 

given my concerns about the objective hazards of a motorcycle, or even a bicycle if much of your commute is in traffic, i'd think about owning a second car for when you don't need the suv. some years ago i had a 2 door '89 nissan sentra that i bought (and later sold) for $2K. it got about 40 mpg and was very reliable. i eventually got a 4x4 pathfinder for my needs, but for a while was lazy and didn't get around to selling it, so i had 2 cars. it really wasn't bad, i'd drive the sentra around town or even on long trips to save gas when i didn't need the big car. basic liability insurance is cheap (i pay $50/month), and you can get a discount for one driver with 2 cars. the downside was finding parking for both. i eventually sold the sentra because i don't drive to work anyway, but remember thinking it would make sense to keep it if i did. anyway, the basic suggestion is look for an older, inexpensive, high mpg japanese car as a commuter/around town car.

[RedNose]

Americans live far away from work to avoid living close to the untouchables. The lower 48er, Alaskans and Hawaiians that can afford it all have moved to be with their own "social economic" kind. Because of this muscle power will not be an option regardless of all your verbal masturbation on this thread. Small vehicles that transport small numbers of passengers will be the American answer. Three cylinders, or all electric, maybe hydrogen cell tech, etc. Unfortunately because of "safety", lawyers and lawsuits etc. the back yard mechanic can't make a vehicle to transport without jumping a ton of hoops otherwise we would see some synthesis as far as transportation goes.

I've seen back yard mechanics make items for commercial fishing that were quit innovative. Some of the lucky bastards got patents and were able to pack away some bucks off the idea. But we in our industry can do this because of the "lack" of lawyers, and lawsuits.(I hate all lawyers even my own)

[AlpineK]

The wheels on the bus go round and round all over town

[RedNose]

The wheels on the bus go round and round all over town

But then we could not mingle with our own "social economic" kind. Americans are not willing to do this especially Americans that see themselves as "important".