building a northwest trad rack

[saragrace]

I've looked back in the forums and have seen some discussion of peoples' preferences with respect to brand... good beta, but I have a few more questions.

 

I'm an aspiring trad climber -- frequent haunts for sport climbing have been Exit 38, 32, Vantage, Smith, Tieton, and Squamish, but I basically climb all over the PNW and hope to expand into trad with ground practice this fall and winter and then leave the ground next spring. I've started my rack and have BD Camalot C4s from .5 to 3, and the pink and red tricams (birthday presents rock).

 

I'm ordering a nut tool, and want to add a nut set to the rack. Around here, what are your go-to nuts, and what would you recommend for starting out? The DMM set comes in 1-6 and 7-11 -- if you went with DMMs, would you go with the 7-11 and some smaller singles and/or individual doubles, or a full set of 1-11? Or, do the BD sets make more sense given what gets used around here?

 

Tips?

 

Thanks much!

 

Saragrace

[Alex]

Firstly, do you have doubles or only singles in your cams?

 

It might be controversial, but I am going to recommend you don't climb most routes with nuts, and when you do its specifically small/micro RPs and copper-steel micronuts that are for placements you cannot get cams into. Climb with a double set of cams to 2", and supplement as necessary for particular routes in larger or smaller sizes. For example, for a route like R&D, you might climb with just a single set of cams to 3". But if doing Cocaine Crack you might carry doubles or more in sizes up to 1". For a route like Outer Space you might climb with the full double set of cams to 2" with one 3" peice.

[saragrace]

Singles of the Camalots (and tricams). I'd ultimately like to add doubles of the active pro but want to wait until I know what my tastes are (e.g. whether I want do do doubles of the C4s or go with other brands for certain sizes). First order is nuts, and thanks for your input!

 

Thanks...

[Toast]

I dunno Alex. A set of nuts is a staple for any rack, and it's pretty rare for me to climb without setting any. Sara's new, she's building her first rack, I think a set of nuts is a logical next step (if not first step.)

 

As far as what kind, I like the BD or BD knock offs (smileys, huevos...) I also really like the old HB stoppers, but those are hard to find. I'm coming more and more to like my HB off sets. I generally weed out the itsy bitsy ones and the huge heavy ones, but they're cheap and it's nice to have them if you know you're gonna need 'em. However, you'll learn to adjust your rack to the route as Alex points out.

 

Don't forget about slings and biners and how you're going to rack. I'd shop around for what lightweight wiregates you prefer and budget for two dozen. You can buy six pacs of cheap quick draws as a cheap way to build that up, but lightweight wiregates make a huge difference in weight. Just swap out the dog bone for some 9/16 webbing when you go alpine.

[fenderfour]

A typical nut set is 4-13. Sizes 1,2, & 3 are usually of little use. if you need something that small, HB brassies, RP's or Metolius Astro nuts work well.

[slothrop]

I find that the medium-sized nuts (#6-9 Smileys, BD-style) get placed the most, followed by the #4-5 and then the larger ones. I only ever bring doubles in the small sizes, and use HB offsets to double-up.

 

I place my yellow Alien just about every time I go climbing. Best piece I own. Aliens and TCUs are good small cams.

 

If you like Tieton, get a few hand-size hexes. They're often better than cams in the rock there.

[catbirdseat]

I would have said exactly the same thing as Slothrop, but he beat me to it.

[selkirk]

hmmmm interesting ideas so far.....

So my 2 cents on gear...... Passive Pro is actually my first choice for any given placement... Especially if I have a reasonable stance, First I try and fiddle in a hex (the same 2 or 3 always seem to find a place on my rack, and I place one of them more often than any cam I own). Hex's just make me happy, very confidence inspiring. For me, a good hex placement is enough to keep me happy for 10 or 15 ft (further than a nut or cam). After that I look for nuts placements, then finally cam placements. It might just be lack of experience with them, but it seems like there are more ways for a cam placement to go bad than a nut placement. If your concerned about it walking you just give it a good jerk and let your 2nd deal with it. The other thing I find is that there are often good placements that will only take 1 kind of pieces but won't take anything else (big flared pods get hexes, horizontal cracks get tri-cams etc.)

 

Even on steep ground nuts are my go to piece. With practice they go just as fast as a cam, and I have more faith in them. I rarely climb anything where I don't place at least 3 or 4, and have often gone through 5 or 6 on a single pitch.

 

Of course the other caveat is that I like thin cracks

 

I think tri-cams are great in the alpine, where I'm really trying to maximize the versatility of every piece on my rack, and not likely to be climbing too close to my limit (so i'll have a good stance to fiddle some). And at that I only use the smallest 3 or so tri-cams.

 

Nuts are all personal preference. I've got a set of DMM's and love them to death. They always just seem to seat a little more nicely than the BD's (smiley's etc). That said they're a bit more expensive and the BD's hold a fall just as well. Word on the street is that Wild Country nuts tend to get stuck for some reason though?

 

So my advice....

A full set of nuts (DMM, BD, Smiley's Huevo's, don't think it matters much. But I do love my DMM's)

The third smallest tri-cam (blue or black? ) for alpine mostly

3 or 4 hexes (Wild Country, either the biggest 4 (7,8,9,10? Red, Yellow, Purple, Blue) or the biggest 4 minus the biggest one (Red, Yellow, Purple). Don't get the full set though, I never seem to use the smaller ones at all.

1x #2 Omega Pacific Link Cam

 

oh, and for Biners, take a look at the Mammut Lighweight wiregates. $5.25 a piece at 36gm, definitely the best deal for the weight, and good biners with nice action to boot

[counterfeitfake]

ABC Huevos! They are cheap and work. And for cams, I like DMMs for the same reason.

 

In general I think beginners should go with cheap gear, if they really want to buy their own. Use other people's stuff if you have more patience, because maybe right now you don't even know how two cams can be different from one another.

 

I don't think a beginner should buy a link cam. They're expensive, require more care and are a little trickier to use than another cam.

[dbb]

for northwest trad and especially alpine a lot of the rock around here has small cracks that are great for small cams. I'd add a #1 and 2 metolius TCU to the rack as those sizes come up everywhere and are not always protectable with small nuts. the 0.5 C4 (which is the same as #3 orange metolious, and yellow alien, roughly) will also be a common piece.

 

also pick up a handful of nuts, BD #4-12 (or equivalent) is all you need.

[kevbone]

It might be controversial, but I am going to recommend you don't climb most routes with nuts,

 

What ever you do, dont listen to this guy!

 

Learn to climb trad with only nuts, and your nuts will get bigger! then learn cams, for any nutcase can place a yellow Camalot. But it takes a cool head to hang out and and throw in the right size nut.

[saragrace]

Yeah - personally, I like working with passive pro (based on my limited experience so far). But to each their own...

 

Thanks all, for the help!

 

-Saragrace.

[JosephH]

Kevbone and I actually agree on this topic.

 

HB Aluminums offset nuts and two larger WC stopppers above the HB range are definitely the workhorse on my rack. I carry two sets of the HB's and the two WC's more or less permanently on my rack and augment them with small wires and / or cams as necessary for each route. I reach for them first every time at a placement and only reach for a cam above the range of those nuts or in placements a nut clearly won't work for some reason. I don't carry hexes or tricams anymore, however. I climb a lot of routes where the stoppers are all I leave the ground with. It sucks the HB Aluminums aren't available at the moment. DMM is in a bit of a catfight over the rights which, oddly enough, are held independently for for the brassies and aluminums for some reason - they hold the rights for the larger Aluminum ones.

[ClimbingPanther]

Kevbone and I actually agree on this topic.

 

word, me too.

[still_climbin]

I also agree with Kevbone. Using nuts and hexes when you're learning forces you to learn the rock. After you're proficient with passive you're ready to expand to your own tastes. If you reverse the learning and start with cams, their flexible range will spoil you early and you'll never get on to understanding nuts. Particularly in the alpine, the fact that a handfull of nuts weighs less that a couple cams offers a lot of flexibility, especially if you have to leave an anchor behind.

 

As for favorites, I stick with a single brand of nuts (BD) and hexes (Wild Country-large sizes only). I buy Camp Nanos and BD Neutrinos to save a LOT of weight. I still carry at least one symetric Chouinard mid-size hex restrung with Kevlar, just for good luck. Its surprising how many times it still gets used.

Edited October 4, 2006 by still_climbin

[ken4ord]

Hey Sara sounds like you got a good start with the cams, I would reccomend definitely getting a full set of nuts of the same brand otherwise you might run into some overlap on the sizes. Also practice with them they quite useful and versitile if you know how to place all types confirgurations such a sideways, threading and stacking. Though like Alex said most of the time you are going to reach for the cams, but you can definitely run into places that will only take nuts.

 

Here is some other reasons you will want them to be standard equipment to your rack, if you run into a situation where you need to back off a route nuts are much cheaper to replace than cams. Also I tend to reach for the cams when leading because they are easier to place, but when I set up a belay I like to use my passive pro so that I still have access to my cams on the next pitch. Smaller wires can work on bolts that still have the nut on them but missing the hanger, (how to do this, push the nut down the wire, put loop around bolt behind the nut, then slide the nut up, clip and go).

 

I have never really been a fan of the DMM nuts. I tend to like simpler nut like Wildcountry rocks. They are easy to stack and I like that there is more surface area and they are cheaper (ok they don't have that nice DMM finish but they going to get all scratched up anyway). A set of brassies or steel micros are useful on harder routes.

 

Oh the rack that I have for the PNW and that I use everywhere I climb minus the 4 and 5 camalot. I don't always bring all this stuff up with me but it will at least make the trip to the crag.

 

00 TCU

0-3 Wildcountry Flex Cams

0.5-5 Camalots

Fullset of Wildcountry Rocks

1-2 brassies

1 Loweball

[John Frieh]

 

[fenderfour]

If you need a little extra cash, I'd be happy to buy those AL offsets from you.

[John Frieh]

FF keeps getting them in stock... or do you want used/reduced price?

 

I got some pons I'm looking to move...

[fenderfour]

The HB offset nuts?

[John Frieh]

Oops... my bad.

 

Those are not for sale

[saragrace]

Oh my. I'm salivating. How on earth did I become a person who salivates over a pile of gloriously arranged metal?

 

Saragrace

[John Frieh]

Welcome to the fold

Edited October 4, 2006 by John Frieh

[fenderfour]

John - Is that your "collection"?

 

I have a lot of old Chouinard pins I still pound, some aluminum bong-bongs, a bit of gold line, some unnamed steel biners, frightening Salewa ascenders, an old Grivel axe, and an ice screw that scares me just hanging on my wall.

[John Frieh]

Part of it Nothing like owning a bunch of gear that is older than you

 

If you look real close you can see the very neutrino found on the GP

 

You looking to sale?