Sleeping at Paradise

[Maurice]

Is it tolerated to sleep in your truck at Paradise?

[jon]

As long as they don't catch you doing it.

[pope]

The Narada Falls toilette is a great winter biv-wack.

[Figger_Eight]

You need a parking pass to keep your car overnight at the Paradise parking lot now. You can only get one if you have reservations at either of the two lodges or in the car campgrounds.

 

[ 05-20-2002, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: Figger Eight ]

[Maurice]

Then where are climbers supposed to park?

[mtnnut]

I thought that restriction only applied to people that were using the guide service. For the guide service, they have this covered in that they now provide transportation from the "Bunkhouse" outside the park boundary (undoubtedly for an additional fee).

 

Checking the Park website, it would appear that this doesn't yet cover the general public, although they have been discussing doing that at some point. They wouldn't be able to do it yet since they don't have the infrastructure built in to provide shuttle service for the general public yet.

 

http://www.nps.gov/mora/climb/climb.htm

[AllYouCanEat]

I received a warning notice last time I parked at paradise for not having an overnight permit or something. I go climbing to get away from that crap. I'll pay to park but they don't need to know where I am going. Information is only used to restrict and control. The capitalization of park lands sucks. Build more shitters and parking lots and they will come. More permits, more fees, more restrictions, less access, more people, paved trails, and ticket rangers...jason...ps sorry for the rant

[payaso]

The climbing fee goes to fill the hand sanitizer in the Muir shitters. Last year I tried to use $15 worth of the stuff before I left.

[payaso]

A baby changing station would be a welcome addition at Muir. Heck, it could even come in handy at the top of the DC for the unlucky parent that might need to change their little one before they push for the summit.

[Rodchester]

And the view from the lower saddle crapper is nice....

[jules]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dbb:

What you're really paying for is to have world class rangers like gator and his staff there 24/7 to haul your broken ass of any spot on that mountain.

---

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the rangers are under no obligation whatsoever to rescue anyone. Of course, unless the risk to their own lives is just too great, I'm pretty sure they will attempt rescue of anyone and everyone in need of said attempt.

[Figger_Eight]

quote:

---

If you feel inclined to believe that it helps cover toilet maintenance, consider that the shitter on the lower saddle between the Grand and Middle Teton is paid for by the guide services who operate on the mountain. So your $15, by comparison, subsidizes RMI among others.

---

RMI does have their own crapper up there...but it isn't ADA compliant.

[nolanr]

We scared the shit out of one of our buddies one time, he was sleeping in his rig in the Longmire parking lot. We banged on the window and yelled "You can't park here!" He woke up thinking he was busted for sure.

[jja]

quote:

---

Originally posted by freeclimb9:

- provide accessible toilet facilities."

---

Is that why there's a folding wheel chair hanging in the outhouse at Muir?

[mtnnut]

AllYouCanEat: was that warning something that you got during the winter? If so, it was probably just warning you that they lock the gate at night.

[jules]

quote:

---

Originally posted by payaso:

The climbing fee goes to fill the hand sanitizer in the Muir shitters. Last year I tried to use $15 worth of the stuff before I left.

---

[erik]

quote:

---

Originally posted by payaso:

Last year I tried to use $15 worth of the stuff before I left.

---

did you mean to get it all over the toilet seat???

 

[AllYouCanEat]

I don't mind the climbing fee. It goes to good use and it is for climbers benefit. The other restrictions get annoying. I don't want getting to rainier to be like Denali, that's all...jason...

[AllYouCanEat]

No, it was for not having an overnight permit. We were in the right parking lot and they thanked us for that. We were also the only car there...

[dbb]

$15 for toilet paper? Don't be so narrow minded. It does pay for the blue bag/toilet program, but I personaly like to be able to melt snow and drink it.

 

What you're really paying for is to have world class rangers like gator and his staff there 24/7 to haul your broken ass of any spot on that mountain.

[freeclimb9]

Other National Parks than Rainier offer world class high angle rescue capabilities without additional user fees. The $15 is slow, but hard, ass-rape. It's been implemented and continued by the Park management. If you feel inclined to believe that it helps cover toilet maintenance, consider that the shitter on the lower saddle between the Grand and Middle Teton is paid for by the guide services who operate on the mountain. So your $15, by comparison, subsidizes RMI among others.

Here's what the park Super, Jon Jarvis, says the fees are spent on: Projects. Not Rescue.

"Recently, Mount Rainier has used fee money to:

- rehabilitate miles of degraded areas on the Wonderland and other cross park trails, - repair individual campsites in Cougar Rock and Ohanapecosh campgrounds, - construct group campsites and accessible sites in campgrounds, - provide new interpretive signs in visitor centers and along roadside interpretive areas, and - provide accessible toilet facilities with baby changing stations in developed areas of the park."

[Mike_Gauthier]

i feel inclined to add to this one.

1. about parking. yes, the nps frowns on camping the paradise parking lot (or any parking lot for that mater). though i've parked and camped in many a parking lot, i can understand why they discourage this practice... especially at paradise if you consider the winter road opening dilemma’s, snow removal, visitor safety around heavy equipment, etc...

2. if you need tips on how to camp in your vehicle and avoid the rangers, ask some Yosemite climbers how they pull it. certainly, enforcement there is FAR more aggressive than at rainier...

3. the fee program that supt jon jarvis is talking about refers to the entrance fees... not climbing fees. FYI, climbing fees are not park of the NPS fee demo program. what you are actually getting is a special use permit. the upside of this is that all of the money stays at rainier and funds climbing related projects, (hand sanitizers, blue bags, helicopter flights to maintenance the camps, ada shitters, and yes, climber/rescue dudes like me, halling and w...

4. as stated earlier, rmi does NOT have an exclusive toilet at muir.

5. i have NO idea why the wheel chair is in the muir outhouse.

6. i'll look into a baby changing station b/c we all know that some climbers cry, complain and whine all the time.

mike

[ScottP]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rodchester:

And the view from the lower saddle crapper is nice....

---

Yes, it is...

 

 

(You can just barely make out the SW corner of the 'crapper' in the lower right hand corner of the graphic.)

[CraigA]

Touche Mike, especially no. 6

[freeclimb9]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Gauthier:

FYI, climbing fees are not park of the NPS fee demo program. what you are actually getting is a special use permit.

---

I searched the nps.gov website for more information on "special use permits", and found there to be no nation-wide standard for what is "special". Many NPS sites had references to "Special Events" that required a permit. Typical is what the Golden Gate National Rec. Area has posted: "A special use permit is required of activities that provide a benefit to an individual, group or organization, rather than the public at large . . ." like "sporting events, public spectator attractions, festivals, concerts, ceremonies, cultural programs."

NPS sites in Washington State are unique in charging a fee for climbing (Not that special of an event on a mountain, IMO.). The Mount Rainier National Park (MORA) website (www.nps.gov/mora/) refers to climbing fees as a "Climbing Cost Recovery Fee" designed to recoup "costs for climber safety and education, upper mountain human waste management, and program administration". It's charged to people who wander onto glaciers, or go above 10,000'. Other NPS sites where climbing is practiced, but not considered "special" (so not targeted for extra fees) include Devil's Tower, Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon (which, BTW, includes Mt Whitney which is over 10,000' and visited by thousands of defecating people every year), Joshua Tree, and Grand Teton, among others. MORA's "program management" must be costly.