willstrickland Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Now you're talkin, C. Moby, Ahab, and Sacherer. There just aren't a lot of multipitch moderates in the ditch. Only stuff that comes to mind in the .7-.9 range, at 3 or more pitches (notes for this crew in parentheses): Royal Arches 5.7 (too long and crowded, epic potential for noobs on raps or NDG descent) CP Frenzy 5.9 (rockfall, second pitch fingers may be a bit much for your noobs) After Six 5.6 (one decent pitch to alot of bs scrambling and wanking about) After Seven 5.8 (never done it, no comment) Nutcracker 5.8 (crowded, mantle could be interesting w/ noobs) NE Butt Higher Cathedral 5.9 (great route, but the wide is as hard or harder than BB) Higher Spire reg route 5.9 (lots 'o 5.9, go get it) Little John right 5.8 (recommended, good route) Munginella 5.6 (five open books area has tons of loose shit above the routes) Selaginella 5.8(see above comment on 5 open books) Committment 5.9 (see above comment on 5 open books) Braille Book 5.8 (one short wide section, go get it) Positively 4th Street 5.9 (let me know if you find the f$%#er, I couldn't ) I'd head for Vegas. More reliable weather for the time of year. Think Cat in the Hat, Crimson, Solar Slab, Phys Graffiti, Black Orpheus, Frogland, etc. Tons of stuff in that range and sportos have the option to bag the trad silliness and go clip fat shinys at the pullouts in case they can't find their nuts...or cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 "Moby, Ahab, and Sacherer. " hahahaha those translate reeeeeal well to smith 9's and 10-'s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Whoever said you might anger somebody if you take a large party of newbie's up Nutcracker is probably correct. Twenty five years ago I guided somebody up that climb and the party behind us got all tweaked because they thought we were in their way. The fact is, I cruised the thing and I didn't notice anybody waiting for us but my guy needed lots of coaching and so I was yelling instructions enough to attract attention. Also, I think he may have dropped a carabiner at one point and they tole me he wasn’t giving me a safe belay. Anyway, that evening we had a big argument about it outside the Mountain Room, with a couple of guys saying I had no right to take an inexperienced climber up there and I took the position that my newbie had every bit as much of a right to climb Nutcracker as these guys and I knew damn well his belay might not be reliable but that was my problem and not theirs. Whether it is right or not, people seem to get rather possessive about the classic routes and they are often prone to viewing other parties - especially those who may be a bit slow or who they perceive as dangerous - as simply being in the way or maybe lacking a right to be there in the first place. The fact that you are going so early in the season will help somewhat by reducing the chance of running into big crowds. There was a four or five-pitch 5.5 on a little tower-like thingy a couple hundred yards east of Yosemite Falls that I used to use for newbie climbs - the pitches were short and easily managed, with comfy belays, leading to something resembling a summit, and requiring a couple rappels to get off. I wonder if it is now in a guidebook - it wasn't when I was climbing it but that was years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 C'mon RuMr. I wasn't recommending those three for these guys, even if Sacherer is only 5.9 They are real good pitches if you like the wide. MattP, are you talking about that route over by arrowhead arete that tops out on a little spire to the right of the arete proper? Seems like it was only about 2 pitches. We got down w/ one rap on two 60s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 That could be, Will. The way I did it, I always broke it into short pitches to maintain closer contact with my partners and it seems to me it was one longish and a short rappel on 50m ropes, then scramble down a gully a bit. Would that be as close to the Falls as I remember it being? Does it have a name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I think Matt is maybe talking about Arrowhead Spire. Next door is Arrowhead Arete, an obscure classic, and in my book, an enjoyable route. I also think the 3 pitch Bishop's Terrace at the Church Bowl is worth a look. If you don't want to deal with the grief on Nutcracker, After Six is a actually a fun, mellow route that might not be so crowded. Not a classic, but doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 The Valley today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 nice photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 they are nice photos. i believe werner took them. the valley looks awesome right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 A few notes 1) your going to freeze your asses off 2) Yosemite grades are burlier than Smith -be ready 3) You have a huge party, I suggest breaking into smaller groups 4) your going to be psyched on the beauty of the place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Chillin Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) Thanks for REAL input, Will. Serenity, Sons for sure - easy .10d (there IS such a thing!) Baby Jesus, the Good Book scares me... [suck]obviously chestbeat, crap[/endsuck (I didn't read the thread)] Edited March 15, 2006 by Mos_Chillin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Braille Book: Described to me as 'a 5.8 climb with a 5.9 approach'. The 5.9 isn't literal just...well...you'll see.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Braille Book: Described to me as 'a 5.8 climb with a 5.9 approach'. The 5.9 isn't literal just...well...you'll see.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Go to Red Rocks. Better locale for what you're after, IMO. But if you are goin to the ditch: Braille Book, and while you're up there the Reg Route on Higher Spire. The approach is tame, about an hour. Ditto, not too much traffic on those routes and should be a real adventure newbies. RR on Higher was my first Yosemite climb when I was a newbie, luckily for me all leading was done by my partner. BB's first couple pitches weren't bad from what I remember, steep, but not to hard, but I didn't make it much further because the sky dropped in on us and it started pouring. I haven't heard Royal Arches mentioned. It has large ledges so it is easy to let groups past if you need too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 C'mon RuMr. I wasn't recommending those three for these guys, even if Sacherer is only 5.9 They are real good pitches if you like the wide. MattP, are you talking about that route over by arrowhead arete that tops out on a little spire to the right of the arete proper? Seems like it was only about 2 pitches. We got down w/ one rap on two 60s. Those routes are 5 stars for sure though! Man, Ahab is a workout and a half...can't imagine doing that without a nice big fatty cam the way it was originally done...whatever you say bout those old guys, they had ballz...especially sachar and pratt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Go to the 5 Open Books for short easy multi pitch. There is also a place close to Yosemite falls viewpoint called the beach, at least I think, that has a couple moderate routes. Go to the base of El Cap if it looks safe. Pine Line is a nice route. the first pitch of the Salathe is good. And for the real Yosemite experience is Sachar Crack. I think there are other good routes further to the left. The Cookie Cliff might have some good routes for you guys to try because it is a little warmer there, but the hards are pretty hard there. I would save the longer climbs for the end of the trip. Let the group get dialed first or else you will epic. On another note, I would go to Red Rocks or J Tree this time of year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 STFU! Pinnacles rocks! In the spring it is green and gorgeous. It's also got a ton of fun, clean routes. However, placing trad pro there is an art (like Gunks routes or Vantage cracks) so stick to bolted lines. Oh yeah, and bring small diameter biners for the spinner star drive 'bolts' you may find, otherwise you may find yourself slinging them. In the valley, I agree with others you may be cold. However, the falls will be roaring and it will be gorgeous. Others have suggested some good routes. My two cents is to look for warm and sunny routes: As you originally suggested, Manure Pile Buttress is your best bet for multiple moderate trad routes close together. It's not the valley's finest (note the name). People often race on the seven or so lower pitch variations to the Nutcracker before the bottlenecks higher up. Churchbowl area is a good suggestion. I really liked Revival (10a fingers to hand). Braile Book, and Higher Cathedral (I assume y'all mean Northeast Buttress when you say regular route - "Perhaps the best grade IV in the valley") are North-facing and the descent may well be icy/snowy at the top. That said, they are great routes. If you're going to hike that far up the gully go do the Regular Route on higher Cathedral Spire. That would blow their little minds. Snake Dike will be cold and there won't be cables to descend. If you want a great, moderate face route go do Crest Jewel (10a) on North Dome. This is best done by hiking in from the top but you can also do it after blitzing the Royal Arches. The North Dome gully is not as bad as people tell you, just avoid doing it in the dark. Aside: Yosemite moderate face routes typically have long run-outs. Be prepared. (e.g. many Snake Dike easy pitches (5.3 - 5.4) have only one bolt in the middle of a 150 foot pitch. One Crest Jewel 5.8 pitch has 4 bolts in 160 feet). Have a great trip! I wish someone had taken me to Pinnacles and Yosemite as a teenager. I was living in New Jersey then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 May I suggest you re-apprise your request? I guided for many years, given what you are saying about the skill levels, you do not want a group like you are describing (ie "a group of enthusiastic teenagers with limited climbing experience") on a yos multi-pitch. Do NOT. Many of them will have anchors you have put in and small or non-existant ledges. Cluster*F is a word which might start to describe it. (Now to me, whan I hear the word group, I'm thinking more than 3 and up to 20, so even if you split the party s to 3 max, I suspect that the experiance level starts to get real thin for some of the groups, no?) Anyway, lots of reasons to shift your focus. Loss of control and increased chance of a fatality is only one of them. May I suggest you check out single pitch or short climbs lower to the ground on the northern walls (like maybe the longest would be Sunnyside Bench Jamcrack, a 2 pitch climb that has a bolted anchor at the ledge between pitches, or Bishops Terrace.) After you've been there a day or 2 and folks have sorted out what their skills and attitudes are, then maybe spin off a party or 2 and head for some of the routes mentioned previously. Nutcracker would be great, perhaps Snake Dike or Royal Arches too for instance. Snake Dike in particular (North dome too) check the weather and conditions before you head out, as high as they are they're most likely out of the question, there might be huge snow at the base, probably on route too: some folks might just want to hike up to the start of Snake Dike with the group and then around and up the top to meet the climbers, which would be great, but check that the 1/2 dome cables are up and there is no snow. I've come down with the cables down, and can't imagine doing it with any snow on the thing: ANY. Nobody climbs at Schultz Ridge, it's generally short bolted routes with lots of 1 pitch climbs. North side of the valley so it's sunny. If theres snow on the Captain avoid it cause if it starts to warm up mid day- you might get some ice chunks your way. think about it, look at Josephs pics too, .....if you are on or near the ground, some of the weaker/tireder kids can just wander over the "mall" and hang out. If it starts to snow mid day, you can just wander over and have pizza..... Most important thing is saftey, fun will follow if you are safe. Sounds like a great time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jport Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Thanks for all the input. We are aware of all the challenges, hazards, and considerations that need to be made when taking younger climbers to Yosemite. Safety has always been our main concern and we intend to emphasize the same on this trip. We are also aware of the fact that this is still very early for climbing in Yosemite. We'll be keeping an eye on the forecasts and may need to adjust our itinerary accordingly. Lastly, we are aware of the difficulties of managing climbing parties of three people on small ledges and trad anchors. That is why I'm taking the time to research suitable routes for our group. In the end, our number one goal is to provide an opportunity for the students to have fun and learn. Pinnacles and Yosemite represent two very different types of climbing. Hopefully, the exposure to both will be valuable experience for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Jport... what exactly is the skill set/experience of the head guys (you included)? From your post, i gather that you have never been there or you wouldn't be asking these questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jport Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Indeed, I have never climbed in Yosemite before. I have only hiked in the Valley (Half Dome Loop) and Tuolumne area (Vogelsang Loop). I'm quickly learning the diversity of climbs that Yosemite has to offer. The organizer of the trip has 30+ years climbing experience. Another leader has 15+ years. I've been climbing for 6 years. Lastly, the other adult has only been climbing for 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 how much of this has been on granite as opposed to smith style climbing? its pretty easy to look into a guidebook and see route X listed at 5.9 or 5.10 or even at 5.8 and get into trouble if you don't have the right skills for that particular style of climbing... One of the earlier posters had it right that you should check some single pitch stuff out first, and figure out where you are at... it sounds like maybe 2 of your 4 group leaders might not be up to managing a bunch of beginners and themselves together...it can be easy to get in over your head there with some serious consequences (speaking from experience ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jport Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 I understand and appreciate what you are saying. Obviously, we're not going to launch right into the harder multi-pitch climbs. We'll have three days of climbing in Yosemite to figure out our skill levels and abilities. Single-pitch routes have always been part of the plan. My original Post was to find a few routes that we can work towards and make our finale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 i think CPF is the way to go then! on your last day there...bring a tarp as there will be a snow bank to start off this time of the year... its toooootally classic and reasonable for the grade...also, despite being crowded all of these routes are virtually empty before 8 am...everyone is too hung over to get on this stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 its pretty easy to look into a guidebook and see route X listed at 5.9 or 5.10 or even at 5.8 and get into trouble if you don't have the right skills for that particular style of climbing... True. It's a humbling experience. Good luck to you and your group! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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