Falling climbers' numbers

[Mos_Chillin]

falling

 

Unfortunately, technical rock climbing numbers seem to be spiking.

 

Probably due to acceptable "fringe" risk.

 

More cam recalls may help there.

[Stefan]

Dudes. Americans love being fat. The numbers are showing it.

[still_climbin]

All I can say about those of you in the climbing masses that are leaving is DON'T LET THE DOOR BUMP YOU IN THE ASS.

 

It bothered me when the sport went mainstream in the 70's. A whole new ego thing spawned out of that and changed the character of the sport. A few less people on routes would be great.

[Mos_Chillin]

The harder you climb, the less crowded the routes, at least with trad stuff.

 

Good reason to keep your game on!

[ivan]

The harder you climb, the less crowded the routes, at least with trad stuff.

 

Good reason to keep your game on!

word! and if you hit the "man i suck and will never be able to free above this level" barrier it's a good reason to learn how to aid climb...

[magellan]

Every year Americans get a little fatter and a little lazier. Why would you walk uphill when you could sit on a jetski? Why would you drive six hours roundtrip to climb for six hours, when you could cruise the costco samples, watch football, and eat at frickin mcdonalds?

 

The population is getting older. I noticed I am in the biggest percentage of that census breakdown.

[archenemy]

The population is getting older.

 

I think, in general, this is a good thing. The laziness part--not so good.

[G-spotter]

I went cragging at a once-popular sea cliff yesterday, used to be quite the zoo, and it was all mossy and deserted. Even polished holds were growing over with algae.

 

Less climbers = routes reclaimed by nature=less climbing.

[archenemy]

I went cragging at a once-popular sea cliff yesterday, used to be quite the zoo, and it was all mossy and deserted. Even polished holds were growing over with algae.

 

Less climbers = routes reclaimed by nature=less climbing.

Fortunately for you = more opportunity to

 

edit: Oops--I forgot I was not in Spray. Feel free to moderate away. My bad.

Edited March 31, 2006 by archenemy

[faster_than_you]

The number of climbers falling is better than lots of climbers falling.

 

Mos Chillin... Are you sure technical rock climbing is really getting more popular? I spent a 45 days last fall (subtle chest beat) between 11-worth, Yosemite, J-Tree and Cochise and it never seemed like I had to wait for any of the classic climbs. I was particularly amazed at how sleepy J-Tree and Yosemite were. But I'm not complaining...

[G-spotter]

too many falling climbers will produce falling climbers numbers too

[Mos_Chillin]

Lucky You!

 

Sport areas are probably feeling the brunt of the increase, due to safety.

Another potential factor that may offset the increases is the number of new routes, and areas being developed

 

Folks been gettin after it the last 10 years or so, it seems.

[Dave_Schuldt]

SOlitude is nice, but I'd be worried that fewer visitors would result in further fees or reduced road maintenance.

 

The more people use the outdoors the harder it will be for the forces of evil (Bush) to mess with it. This is what we were thinking after a day of hiking off the Middle Fork Snoqualmie last summer. There was 1 other car at the trail head and we didn't see anyone.

[mattp]

Climb Ca may have a valid point, in part. I do think that we are much more focused on performance and ticking off recognized “must do” objectives than we used to be, and this may in part be feeding a trend toward fewer climbers pursuing a wider range of mountaineering destinations that used to be more popular. I’m not sure I blame that on some evil corporate marketing strategy, however – it just seems to reflect evolving attitudes and interests.

 

While it appears there are as many climbers as ever who venture into the Pickets, it is a lot easier than it used to be because there are now established routes, and even trails, that take one there. Meanwhile, the North Cascades rangers do report falling numbers applying for camping permits at popular destinations like Boston Basin. Some of this may be due to an increased interest in car-to-car one-day ascents, but I don’t think all of it does.

 

Fundamentally, I think, we are less interested as a user group in the bonding with nature thing that was such a big part of the sport when I started climbing. But maybe that was an unrealistic fantasy in the first place: did I come away from my botched venture into the Pickets by a stupid brush crash approach thinking I wanted more of the same? No. Do I cherish my wilderness camping trips over some awesome climbing trip where we climbed some cool big lines? Not really. Still, however, when was the last time we saw someone write on THIS website about how they enjoyed a fantastic sunset and the wildflowers were awesome and all the birds were singing up at what-the-heck meadow? They’d get laughed out of town if they celebrated that aspect of their latest climbing adventure!

 

As Climb Ca says in his “rant,” it is still mountaineering if you climb some class three scramble route, and I think a “backpack” to Dome Peak is every bit as respectable as a speed-climb of Liberty Crack, but we don’t seem to celebrate it as such.

[timy]

There are many good points made in the above rants and raves but one is missing that shouldn't be. Newbies, I believe are not treated in a manner that fosters enthusiasm

in the mountaineering and climbing community. Case in point,

I was recently FLAMED for asking a question about plotting

GPS co-ordinates on a Green Trails Map. While the answer was, I learned, easy to figure out with the help of a gentelman in Canada!!! I was ridiculed for my question!!!

There are probably manny who don't pursue this sport/hobby

because they were not 1. able to find a mentor 2.asked questions and were made fun of for asking(stupid questions)

3.Both of the above made it impossible to gain more expierience even after they may or may not have taken some beginers course in Alpine Travel or Mountaineering. The point I'm trying to make is this. Most of the expierienced

climbers and mountaineers don't want to be troubled by or slowed down by NEWBIES and so don't contribute to their endeavors. This in the long run will create LESS outdoors

people and ultimatly a smaller voice for the wilderness we all seek to protect and enjoy. Soooo next time you are checking the newbies site REMEMBER you,we need each other

and as THUMPER said if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything!!!!

[mattp]

I agree with you, Timy, that it is sad to see folk’s so often flame somebody for asking what they feel are dumb questions – especially in the “newbies” forum where there is not supposed to be such nonsense. However, I’m glad to see you’ve come back for more and I hope somebody's on-line quip isn't going to stop you from climbing what you want to climb. See you on the trail.

[DirtyHarry]

There are many good points made in the above rants and raves but one is missing that shouldn't be. Newbies, I believe are not treated in a manner that fosters enthusiasm

in the mountaineering and climbing community. Case in point,

I was recently FLAMED for asking a question about plotting

GPS co-ordinates on a Green Trails Map.

 

So, internet flaming is responsible for fewer people taking up alpinism?

 

I wish it were that easy to make people go away.

[kij]

You're right, Timy. Proof in hand.

[archenemy]

and as THUMPER said if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything!!!!

[DirtyHarry]

The humper ?

[G-spotter]

she's sayin' nothing.

[mattp]

So, internet flaming is responsible for fewer people taking up alpinism?

 

I wouldn't go that far (and in fact I'm not sure Timy really would, either, if push came to shove) but this place could be more supportive or encouraging of climbers who may not meet your high performance standards without greatly impeding your ability to amuse yourself.

[DirtyHarry]

Actually, Matt, I think that rarely happens. In going back to read Timy's GPS post, a few folks made a few jokes that weren't even at his expense, but the bulk of the responses were helpful and contained good information.

 

Anyone who posts here, even and especially veteran climbers, gets flamed a little but that's just par for the course. Seems to me Timy just has thin skin, so maybe he should just stay out of the kitchen.

[tomtom]

Of course, The Mountaineers and other groups who work with novice climbers are always fair game.

[mattp]

Actually, I would agree with you that it rarely happens. It happens regularly, however, and even though you'll get ten or even fifty helpful answers for one flame toss or whatever, it happens enough to discourage broader participation.

 

About a month ago, I looked through a week's worth of posts

and found really only four or five threads out of two hundred active threads where I thought something was out of line. One could say "not bad, eh?" And they'd be right. However, I constantly run into people who are hesitant to ask questions or post trip reports because of that stuff.

 

I know that many people here are not interested in broader participation - they are content to play with their on-line friends every day when they should be working and perhaps they don't really want much more. I believe that with a little tighter adherance to the "spray here; not there" distinctions between one forum and the next, we could have a little more chance to discuss climbing without losing the fun.